I'd say that somebody who runse the deficit up to mind boggling levels, thereby ensuring future generations have to pay for it "hates their own country."
I'd say that a lot of republicans (like me) are enormously upset about the deficit. But that doesn't mean that Bush hates his own country.
MattSavinar wrote:
I'd say that sombody who sits back while the governement incarcerates more people than any other country either "hates their own country" or "doesn't give enough of a doo doo to say or do something."
If someone commits a crime, they need to goto jail. Simple enough concept. Throw away the key.
MattSavinar wrote:
So Jay: stop not giving a doo doo about your country.
Listen to me very carefully kid. You are so out in the fringe of the liberal extreme that it is scary. Sucessful people are typically those who take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming everyone else for their problems. Stop seeking to make yourself a victim.
Get a haircut. Shave the goatee. Take the piercings out of your nose and your tongue. Then go get a job and make something of yourself.
Nice picture. You clean up decent. Now when are you going to get a job, some experience and some credibility? Did your parents pay for your law school? Are they upset that you decided to toss the career?
So you need a good career to have credibility? I've dealt with people with that line of thought. They think they know more because they are more successful than me. They aren't willing to listen to me, because they already believe that they know more.
It's elitism and arrogance at its worst. I like to think that, on the message boards at least, people can be judged on the substance of their posts, and not their educational and job backgrounds. _________________ "If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"George W. Bush loves poor people. He keeps making more of them." -unkn
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:55 am Post subject:
Falconoffury wrote:
So you need a good career to have credibility? I've dealt with people with that line of thought. They think they know more because they are more successful than me. They aren't willing to listen to me, because they already believe that they know more.
It's elitism and arrogance at its worst. I like to think that, on the message boards at least, people can be judged on the substance of their posts, and not their educational and job backgrounds.
I agree with you. Unless you do something very horrible, or very beneficial to humanity, you will not be remembered in 3000 years. If you do not believe this, then can you tell me who first discovered fire? Fire is the most influential discovery made by humans, and even primitive society would not be possible without it. Also, who invented agriculture? This was also a necessary discovery to have any stable civilization. Without agriculture, humanity would be stuck in the "hunt and gather" era. Even more recently, who invented the wheel? Without the wheel, progression beyond the stone age would have been near impossible. I do not want the civilizations that discovered these forces and harnessed them, I want the exact names of the people who discovered these, and their lifespans.
I know that these discoveries have been around for ages, but the point is that these discoveries were the most influential during the history of man, but nobody knows the specific name of the individual who discovered them. So what difference does it make what accomplishments are made during your life time if you will be forgotten in virtually no time at all? I see no point in worrying about achieving greatness, because in the long run, nobody will remember you, or care what you did anyhow.
The life of a human is very insignificant in the universe, and the earth as a whole. Just think, 5,000,000,000 years from now when the sun becomes a red giant and envelops the earth, killing off all life and evaporating our oceans, no life will exist on earth anyhow. At that point, it will not matter who did a certain task, or made a certain discovery, as all life on this planet will have been exterminated. Even after this happens, the universe will continue onward, and other rising civilizations will experience the same fate. In the grand scheme of things, nothing nobody does matters anyhow. The universe as a whole is largely unimpacted by the existence of even our solar system. _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
You need experience and some sort of background to have credibility. Matt is just a law school grad who never got a job. Yet he is holding himself out as a subject matter expert on energy issues, demographics, sociology and numerous other issues related to "life after the oil crash".
We have seen how mentally unstable he is from his various posts on just this message board. The thin skin from a little criticism is quite obvious.
Quote:
I've dealt with people with that line of thought. They think they know more because they are more successful than me. They aren't willing to listen to me, because they already believe that they know more.
They were likely correct. If they were more successful than you, it was likely for a reason.
Quote:
It's elitism and arrogance at its worst.
It's actually freedom. It is a system where individual effort is rewarded. Nobody owes you anything in life.
Quote:
I like to think that, on the message boards at least, people can be judged on the substance of their posts, and not their educational and job backgrounds.
Matt is being judged by the substance of his posts. He posts conspiracy theories about the CIA taking out the Bush Administration by August. That serious brings into question his mental stability and his credibility on all issues. If he is a conspiracy nut on some things, why not peak oil also? Do you see how Matt damages the peak oil debate by being a conspiracy nut?
Peak Oil is (and will be) a highly charged and emotional topic. It involves HUGE change. It will be highly politicized as we can already see. If someone like Matt is trying to build a credible career as an expert on Peak Oil, then credibility is VERY important.
When Matt starts associating himself with conspiracy theories and other fringe extremist themes, that hurts peak oil and the seriousness of the debate. It allows the political opponents of peak oil to simply discard it as "just another nutty conspiracy".
Luckily Matt is just a kid with no experience so nobody takes him seriously anyway.
If you want to see how a serious author handles peak oil, check out Paul Roberts "The End of Oil". This guy gets invited on national broadcasts all the time.
Matt didnt write the article about Bush/CIA. FTW did. FTW has done infinitely more toward raising awareness of non-mainstream issues than you ever will. Mike Ruppert is no inexperienced kid.
You are so loud up on your soapbox about experience and credibility. Wheres yours? Or are you just another trolling noob out for attention?
How about some supported data proving Matt and Mike wrong....
Your ranting isnt making you any friends. You have fallen into the same "extremist" category you are preaching about.
Many of us wouldnt even be here except for Matt's site. If nothing else, it is an accessable introduction to Peak Oil issues.
Thanks Matt. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Matt didnt write the article about Bush/CIA. FTW did. FTW has done infinitely more toward raising awareness of non-mainstream issues than you ever will. Mike Ruppert is no inexperienced kid.
You missed the point. Extremism chasing BS stories like that lessens credibility. This website is dominated by extremist nuts and that associates peak oil with extremism and allows the average person to dismiss it without debate. Matt is just the worst example here.
Quote:
You are so loud up on your soapbox about experience and credibility. Wheres yours?
I am not putting myself out there as a subject matter expert like Matt is. Matt is a 20 something kid who just graduated law school and has never had a job. He wants to be taken seriously, yet he chases conspiracy theories which damages his credibility. I take issue with Matt portraying himself as an expert on these topics.
I am just a person who is interested in Peak Oil as a topic. I do not profess to be an expert on these issues. I am not writing a book, website. or trying desperately to get invited to media shows, like Matt is.
Quote:
How about some supported data proving Matt and Mike wrong....
It is not required to disprove a negative. Anyone can predict the end of the world. They can do it every single year. One of these years (10, 20, 100, 500 years from now) they might be right. It is quite profitable to be a scare monger and predict the end of civilization.
Quote:
Your ranting isnt making you any friends. You have fallen into the same "extremist" category you are preaching about.
I am not looking to make friends here who all just agree with each other.
I came looking for info on peak oil and I found nutty extremists talking about the evil USA, the evil corporations, Soviets were the good guys, the CIA is taking out Bush by August, Nic Berg was killed by the US gov't, etc.
Do you see how that could possibly persuade a normal person to dismiss peak oil as just another conspiracy? I think that is too bad, because peak oil is a real issue and I wish it wasnt associated with nuts like Matt.
If I am an extremist (a republican who is planning to vote for Kerry) then what are you?
Try to have a bit more balance and objectivity in life. It will serve you well.
Joined: May 23, 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 11:17 am Post subject:
As a 20-something now, I expect that when the problems hit, even I won't be prepared to contain my resentment towards those whose habits drained all the cheap oil.
Keep in mind whose jobs will pay your social security bill, or whatever scheme replaces it to keep the elderly sheltered, fed and clothed. Whether it's family, community or nationally based, the bill will still get shifted onto the younger generations.
Personally, I won't be too motivated to pay for the upkeep of said surplus baggage.
As a 20-something now, I expect that when the problems hit, even I won't be prepared to contain my resentment towards those whose habits drained all the cheap oil.
I thought about that also. Should I be angry at the baby boomers? Should I be angry at people driving a Hummer getting 10 mpg? Should I be angry at the gov't for not being more forward thinking?
It's not really the fault of any person or group. We are all just living in the world that we grew up in and came to accept as normal. Oil is how we were raised. We don't know anything different.
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Keep in mind whose jobs will pay your social security bill, or whatever scheme replaces it to keep the elderly sheltered, fed and clothed. Whether it's family, community or nationally based, the bill will still get shifted onto the younger generations.
Social Security and Medicare are in for big problems. Those trends are just not sustainable. The retirement age will be raised or benefits will be cut or taxes will be raised. Or a combo of all three.
I am not counting on them remaining when I am in my 60's.
Quote:
Personally, I won't be too motivated to pay for the upkeep of said surplus baggage.
Just cheat on your taxes. It is an honor system now anyway.
If someone commits a crime, they need to goto jail. Simple enough concept.
No, really, it is not. We incarcerate the bulk of people each year for non-violent drug offenses while more dangerous and addictive drugs are available on any supermarket shelf in America. Not to mention the fact that the violent crimes often revolve around the money to be made from the illicit trade. As long as there is a risk for a commodity in high demand there will always be a strong black market. Remove the prohibition, and the violence and incarceration will stop.
No it isn't really, but the people who run our government have left the rationing a of precious natural resource to a quasi-market system. Is it any conincidence that the people who probably best understand this (oil executives) also currently occupy the White House? It isn't a conspiracy theory, everyone knows this. People who control energy are powerful, it is only natural that they are deeply involved in the political process. It has been drilled into the souls of Americans that unrestrained capitalism is a "good thing" for a reason, so that philosophically they will be opposed to any hint of socialism when it comes to things like energy and health care, things that everyone needs, for a completely arbitrary philosophy.
so that philosophically they will be opposed to any hint of socialism when it comes to things like energy and health care, things that everyone needs, for a completely arbitrary philosophy.
So what is your suggestion for the alternative to markets/capitalism in relation to energy or health care?
As I see it, energy is not really under the control of western gov'ts. There are too many different producers each with the ability to affect prices in a tight market. As the Exxon executive said, "Energy security is a pipe dream" (or something like that).
Regarding health care, should it be nationalized Canadian style or European style? Single payer system? Rationing? Drug price controls?
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 82 Location: Kansas City
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:10 pm Post subject:
Systemic differentiations notwithstanding, healthcare ought to be managed by the State up to an accepted level of living standards, while the free market should be left to participate in cosmetic markets or health procedures that are not under the umbrella of The Standard.
It is in the public interest that human health, as well as human energy demand/supply/consumption be under a more intelligent level of control than an endless-growth-consumption-driven model can provide.
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