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emersonbiggins
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Location: Dallas
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: Waterboarding works! |
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Woo-hoo! This country is better off for adopting torture techniques straight from the Dark Ages. I've never felt more safe, let me tell ya...
Of course the media is out to lunch on reporting this story as a heinous embarrassment and criminal indictment of America's supposed "moral superiority." Oh well. 
| Quote: | NEW YORK (CNN) -- A former CIA agent who participated in interrogations of terror suspects said Tuesday that the controversial interrogation technique of "waterboarding" has saved lives, but he considers the method torture and now opposes its use.
Ex-CIA agent John Kiriakou says he underwent waterboarding in training and cracked in a few seconds.
Former CIA operative John Kiriakou also told CNN's "American Morning" that he disagrees with a decision to destroy videotapes of certain interrogations, namely of al Qaeda's Abu Zubayda. Kiriakou made the remarks as two congressional committees prepared to grill CIA Director Michael Hayden on the destruction of the tapes and on "alternative" means of interrogation.
Waterboarding begins by placing a suspect on a table with the suspect's feet slightly elevated, said Kiriakou, who was waterboarded several years ago as part of his CIA training. He said he elected not to learn how to perform the technique, which is designed to emulate the sensation of drowning.
Once a suspect is secured on the table, interrogators wrap his or her face in a cellophane-like material, Kiriakou said.
"There is a bladder, or a water source, above the head with water pouring down on the mouth, so no water is going into your mouth, but it induces a gag reflex and makes you feel like you're choking," Kiriakou said.
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CNN
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heroineworshipper
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 614
Location: Calif*
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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For when rate cuts, bailouts, & printing money just aren't enough to sell the houses. CEO's to workers: "The waterboarding will continue until you pay off my home equity line of credit."
Last edited by heroineworshipper on Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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evilgenius
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Joined: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 847
Location: Stopped at the border.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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It's about time that the conversation came round to the gullibility of those that raised alert levels solely based upon the words of those that said anything they could to avoid more torture. Torture does not work. What it does do is increase your vulnerability when you employ imbeciles to run your intelligence agencies because only imbeciles could be yes men under the set rules of engagement.
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Clouseau2
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 266
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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The White House semi-denials about torture/waterboarding seem to almost be lifted out of an Abbott and Costello routine or SNL:
Q Did the questioning of al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah conform with the interrogation program approved by President Bush? [...]
MS. PERINO: I will say that all interrogations -- all interrogations have been done within the legal framework that was set out after September 11th...All of the -- the entire program has been legal.
Q Are you saying that whatever was done in this case was not torture?
MS. PERINO: I am saying that the United States does not torture. The President has been -- [...]
Q But when you have a former CIA officer, John Kiriakou, now saying that waterboarding was used -- since you're saying the interrogations were legal; he's saying on the record now, waterboarding was used in at least one case. You're saying waterboarding is legal?
MS. PERINO: Ed, I'm saying I'm not commenting on any specific technique. I'm not commenting on that gentleman's characteristics of any possible technique. I've given you a very general statement about interrogations being legal, limited and --
Q You just said it was legal.
MS. PERINO: I'm sorry?
Q You said it was within the legal framework.
MS. PERINO: Yes.
Q Everything that was done.
MS. PERINO: Yes.
Q So waterboarding is legal.
MS. PERINO: I'm not commenting on any specific techniques. |
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Heineken
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Posts: 6426
Location: Rural Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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I bet much more than waterboarding is going on in that gulag of secret CIA prisons.
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underdressed
Tar Sands
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: L.A.'s suburban wasteland
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| Heineken wrote: | | I bet much more than waterboarding is going on in that gulag of secret CIA prisons. |
I don't doubt it. I get the ooky feeling that waterboarding is a "wedge" topic. As soon as we allow "not really torture", we set the precedent to allow torture for our safety.
Next comes the question of torturing the homegrown terrorists. Then those illegal aliens. Then those tax evaders. Then, "Tell us which crimes you or your friends committed this week and we'll stop." |
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Heineken
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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It's definitely a slippery slope, underdressed. Slippery with blood, vomit, feces, and urine.
If waterboarding doesn't "work" on a given inmate, it's easy to see them going the next step---say, pulling fingernails. I am absolutely certain, at an intuitive level, that this is already happening.
We should be thinking, too, about what torturing "their people" means for "our people" who get captured. This is a very important military principle that seems to have been almost totally overlooked.
It's just incredible to me that torture (and all the euphemisms served up in its place) has actually become an instrument of US policy and a subject of public debate. Never thought I'd see such a tragic day except in fiction.
Orwell lives.
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"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother |
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mekrob
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| Quote: |
We should be thinking, too, about what torturing "their people" means for "our people" who get captured. This is a very important military principle that seems to have been almost totally overlooked. |
Anybody remember when the beheadings in Iraq started to take place? It was after, and in retaliation for, the abuses in Abu Ghraib.
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Fishman
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Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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Just a little perspective
Hayden said Congress was notified in 2003 both of the tapes' existence and the agency's intent to destroy them.
Several in the Congress (including Democrats) knew this was going on, little complaints. Interesting, we discuss pouring water on someones face, Al Quida blows up UN folks in Algeria.
Mekrob, where's that Koran verse about lopping innocent folks heads off? |
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Fishman
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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I bet much more than waterboarding is going on in that gulag of secret CIA prisons.
Heiniken, are you in the fallout zone from DC? That waterboarding+ might be keeping you alive. Even old whoremonging Bill Clinton told Bush his greatest threat would be Al Quida with a concern about nukes in the US. |
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mekrob
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| Quote: | | Mekrob, where's that Koran verse about lopping innocent folks heads off? |
Where's the verse in the Bible or the article of the Constitution that says to invade and bomb to Hell any nation that you feel remotely threatened by?
I bring up the Bible and Constitution in this case because it has the exact amount of relevance as the Quran does to the beheadings: none. There was never any religious motivation on the part of the kidnappers for their actions (at least that I could find), nor any religious or Constitutional motivation for the actions of the administration; the actions precipitated from events that came prior (Abu Ghraib - 9/11 and thus the ability to fear monger) or just natural tendencies within humans (greed [for oil, power and money]).
I wonder how long it takes PA or one of those guys to get over here and spam this thread about a beheading or bombing with a slight religious reference. 1 Mississippi. 2 Mississippi...
| Quote: | | Even old whoremonging Bill Clinton told Bush |
Clinton and Bush - The Brain Trust of America.
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I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia |
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Plantagenet
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Joined: Apr 09, 2007
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Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| mekrob wrote: | | There was never any religious motivation on the part of the kidnappers for their actions |
Don't be silly.
Al Qaida is an Islamicist group who advocate the use of force to expel invaders from Islamic countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya), fight against apostates, heretics and schismatics like the Shia, and in the long run wish to see the return of the Caliphate and Sharia law in all Islamic countries.  |
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emersonbiggins
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Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 5045
Location: Dallas
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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53% of CNN visitors approve of waterboarding.
This certainly paves the way for allowing it to be used as liberally as a taser  by your local police force.
...and perhaps simultaneously? 
taser+waterboarding = sekure amerika
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mekrob
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| Plantagenet wrote: | | mekrob wrote: | | There was never any religious motivation on the part of the kidnappers for their actions |
Don't be silly.
Al Qaida is an Islamicist group who advocate the use of force to expel invaders from Islamic countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya), fight against apostates, heretics and schismatics like the Shia, and in the long run wish to see the return of the Caliphate and Sharia law in all Islamic countries. |
Hey, I was right. Propagandists are everywhere. You are well worth your salary Planted. Amazing quickness on your part and unbelievably idiotic statements that have nothing to do with the topic yet again. Amazing.
_________________
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia |
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Heineken
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Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 6426
Location: Rural Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Waterboarding works! |
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| Fishman wrote: | | Heiniken, are you in the fallout zone from DC? That waterboarding+ might be keeping you alive. Even old whoremonging Bill Clinton told Bush his greatest threat would be Al Quida with a concern about nukes in the US. |
Dunno, Fishman. I'm 100 miles south of DC and somewhat west.
If I get atomized or irradiated, it will be because of and not in spite of the incendiary policies of BushCo et al.
I don't know how you can possibly feel safer in the hands of that dangerous moron.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother |
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