Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6283 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill limits
A diabolically clever strategy for The Big Three: Refuse to cap emissions, and blame the other two for your refusal. As long as all three play the game, they're all technically off the hook.
Officially, the US government says it wants to push in Bali for a climate protection "road map." But SPIEGEL ONLINE has learned that this may not be true. US government officials are already attempting to coordinate with China and India to prevent binding emissions limits.
In recent official statements, Washington has indicated it might be looking for a compromise during negotiations in Bali for a successor agreement to the Kyoto Protocol, which expires in 2012. But sources say the White House is discreetly searching for partners in Beijing and Dehli to derail the prospects for any binding agreements to curb emissions of greenhouse gases.
Coal-burning power plants belch pollutants into the air in China, contributing to global warming that experts say has destroyed billions of dollars in crops.
In India, melting Himalayan glaciers cause floods, while raising a more daunting long-term prospect: the drying up of life-sustaining rivers.
The two economic giants are becoming increasingly aware of the effects of rising temperatures. But though they are among the biggest contributors to the problem, both say they will not sign any climate change treaty that would slow the pace of their development.
Meanwhile, the United States, which has pumped more carbon into the atmosphere over time than any other country, says it will continue to oppose mandatory reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, especially if China and India refuse to budge.
The positions of those three countries are pivotal as delegates from 190 nations begin gathering this week on Indonesia's resort island of Bali to discuss a successor treaty to the Kyoto Protocol, the climate change agreement that expires in 2012.
_________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
Zardoz wrote:
A diabolically clever strategy for The Big Three: Refuse to cap emissions, and blame the other two for your refusal. As long as all three play the game, they're all technically off the hook.
Diabolically clever? It's politics 101, and been done since lord knows when. _________________
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
One of the main reasons the US refused to sign the Kyoto Treaty is the treaty was written specifically in a way that excluded China and India. They were let off the hook.
Now China is the largest CO2 producer on the planet and India is increasing its production of CO2 very quickly.
Its insane to let them off the hook again at Bali. Surely the largest CO2 producer in the world (CHINA) should be part of any treaty signed at Bali.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
Who is it said we will keep doing what we are doing until we can't and then we won't?
I see this at the micro level where I work all the time. Once there is no accountability on individuals, there is no driver for change.
americandream is correct, we will not, infact we cannot stop this train wreck.
If you think in Machiavellian terms, it is in the US interest for China and India to continue to drive economic progress at the expense of the environment. Both countries will be affected far more and far sooner than the US by climate change. Mother nature we will see has an even more lethal, cruel and varied arsenal than the US Dpartment of Defence. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
Madpaddy wrote:
If you think in Machiavellian terms, it is in the US interest for China and India to continue to drive economic progress at the expense of the environment.
That is so "Machiavellian" it doesn't even correspond to reality. The actual negotiating positions at Bali are that the US, Canada, Japan, and others are demanding that China and India join the treaty process and cap their emissions.
It is the EU who is being Machiavellian. The EU clearly doesn't care about the effect of CO2 emisions from China on the environment, as the EU is supporting China and India with the position that there shouldn't be any CO2 caps on China and India, even though China is the world's largest CO2 producer and their emisisons production continues to grow rapidly.
Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1132 Location: Seattle, Wa.
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
Madpaddy wrote:
americandream is correct, we will not, infact we cannot stop this train wreck.
I would agree that we cannot stop it. If we are also truly interested in a major paradigm shift and cultural transformation we actually shouldn't even be trying to stop the train for it is in the wreckage that our transformation can be found and not in "green" solutions that will only serve to extend the current paradigm.
What would a new Kyoto type agreement result in even if all nations cooperated? A continuation of the status quo but just a little cleaner and more efficiently. It will only entrench all nations deeper into the current economic system of expansive growth.
After climate change what will be the next systemic tipping point in our biosphere? Mass extinction of land ecosystems? Collapse of ocean fisheries? Peak fresh water?
You really have to worry once governments and corporations DO embrace climate change seriously since this will only result in increasing the resiliency of Kudzu Ape. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 1242 Location: Suburban tar sands
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
This statement blew me away:
Quote:
the real fuel of the future is coal, especially in the US, China and India. if all three go ahead with their current plans on building coal fired electric generating plants then that alone will over the next two decades double all the CO2 that human kind has put into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution began more than two hundred years ago.
While you're there check out the other 99 articles on the site, they have asked a bunch of eggheads to write about what they have changed their minds about. REQUIRED READING . Quicker and better than a a college education.
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Unholy alliance: U.S, India, China conspire to kill lim
Quote:
This statement blew me away:
Quote:
the real fuel of the future is coal, especially in the US, China and India. if all three go ahead with their current plans on building coal fired electric generating plants then that alone will over the next two decades double all the CO2 that human kind has put into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution began more than two hundred years ago.
PETER SCHWARTZ
While you're there check out the other 99 articles on the site, they have asked a bunch of eggheads to write about what they have changed their minds about. REQUIRED READING . Quicker and better than a a college education.
Yet plenty of people are convinced that PO is a solution to climate change.
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