For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6374 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
RedStateGreen wrote:
I've been organic gardening for 15 years and I'm still learning stuff. Trying to garden in a totally new climate/zone/soil type this year is kicking my butt.
Boy isn’t that the truth. I came from the salad bowl of America 3 years ago and finally had a pretty good garden this year, and I too have been in a garden most every year since I was about as tall as a garden fork stuck in the ground.
The biggest change for us was realizing that out here with 35+ inches of rain per year weeds grow everywhere – not just where you run the hose like in the desert of Central CA - we couldn’t even get to the so-called garden last year for the pigweed. And timing seed starting and transplanting, new bugs and diseases, water and mulch management, variety selection, and, and…
But this year we had way more than we could eat and our goofy hippy garden out-performed most (just most) every old-timer’s traditional plot around. So hang in there, try several different methods and varieties each year and take notes; not that I do.
And by all means, talk to your gardening neighbors and the folks at the greenhouse and farmers market; we all like to brag and complain and you can learn from both! _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1056 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
strider3700 wrote:
...
Anyways my point is that you need to be doing this stuff right now if you want to have any hope of pulling this off after the peak.
That's for sure... _________________ About my avatar: A glassy sphere and a mineral particle magnified 1500 times using a scanning electron microscope.
Joined: Dec 02, 2007 Posts: 79 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Pops wrote:
strider3700 wrote:
Anyways my point is that you need to be doing this stuff right now if you want to have any hope of pulling this off after the peak.
I suppose the same could be said for any serious PO plan.
Didn’t I read that the Saudis have decided not to build the new sour crude refineries they planed because materials have become too expensive?
Even if you don’t go whole hog like strider, you could start building your soil like I think Mom said she was doing – rip out some lawn and plant perennial herbs, small fruit and a few flowers. The simple act of getting that nutrient, labor and money sucking crap off your ground and replacing it with nutrient and tilth building compost and mulch will put you ahead, look nice for the neighbors and ease your grocery bill to boot.
If you have a PO-proof vocation, fine, if not perhaps nurturing an enjoyable avocation that might be valuable in an uncertain future seems like a good plan. Equip yourself and learn skills now while stuff is cheap and life is easy.
There are all sorts of food related skills one could practice – I am much better in the greenhouse than the garden for example. In fact, I just sold $10 worth of heirloom tomato seedlings between the last paragraph and this one from my front yard. Canning, baking, butchering and smoking, sausage making, soap and candle making - the list could go on as long as your modern day shopping list!
Point being, you don’t need to learn to garden, but it does seem prudent to find a dual-purpose today-hobby/tomorrow-vocation.
Hi Pops! I was just curious, how many and how much did you sell them for? Right now here in Icy Cold Canada I am trying my hand at an indoor garden in the basement (my next plan is to figure out how much solar/wind power I would need to keep the lights on if necessary). I built some 3'x3'x1' boxes and amazingly my very first time out I planted "tomato" seeds and so far they are almost 18" tall. No dead plants yet! I was thinking of doing the same thing - planting seeds/stems to make tomato seedlings to sell to at least pay for the rigs.
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Looks to me like 2008 is all set to be an economic disaster, and gas is predicted to be $3.40/gal by spring the EIA sez. A fine year for maxing out the garden!
Our one acre of Southern Indiana clay and rocks is on a hillside, about a foot of fall in 8 feet. So, we terrace, or lose it all to erosion. So far, we've managed to loop a concrete terrace around the back of the house, inside a circle driveway. That made a salad garden right outside the kitchen door, about 15' x 40'. Our daughter has half of it full of perennial herbs. Then, we hired the dozer guy to strip topsoil, level a patch out back, replace topsoil. Next, sow fescue on the slopes to stop erosion, and place stairstepped railroad ties for a retaining wall on the uphill side, from 3 to 6 ties high. This one is 30' x 75'.
We picked rocks off that first patch for 3 years..... Added 6 pickup loads (small truck) of cow manure, 3 loads of rotten sawdust, and 50 lbs of lime. This area made a good crop last summer.
Last July we were able to do this all again, for a second area the same size, which is now growing wheat for a cover crop. If time and resources permit, we'll do a third patch this year, and have the backyard finished, except for more fruit trees further up the hill. Number 3 should be cheaper, since my daughter married a guy who has a Bobcat!
Ties are about $10 each here, delivered, which works out less than anything else I could come up with, and by stepping them and filling the gaps with sand and rocks behind them, they are stable without pegging them down.
It has taken over 4 years to get to this point, and we just have a good start, so yeah, START IT NOW!
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
strider3700 wrote:
I spent a good chunk of time this last winter turning part of my front lawn into more garden space. There have been a fair number of predictions that this will happen on mass after the peak but I want to share a few things I've found out doing this that says this is unlikely to work later.
...
Anyways my point is that you need to be doing this stuff right now if you want to have any hope of pulling this off after the peak.
Good for you. Thanks for the reminder. I plan on getting going in a small way in the spring of '08 and build from there.
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
in_nowhere wrote:
Quote:
I went and bought the seeds that I didn't have. You do have seeds stored and waiting for your emergency garden right?
Just a quick thought about seeds here. Buy orgainic seeds if you plan on using seeds from your crop for growing next year. Many seed companies turn off the genetic marker that allows the seeds produced to be viable. That will be a big problem when year 2 of growing your own food rolls around. Things may grow but they won't produce. Now not all seed companies do this but I don't have a list of the ones that do so play it safe and buy organic.
Has anyone here ever read Weedless Gardening by Lee Reich? It is all about no till methods and why tilling is bad for the soil. I won't go into great detail but our garden was a mess when we moved in and half of it is workable now. My mom tilled half of it and the weeds have loved it. The ground got mixed up so all the dormant seeds sprouted. I took part of the garden and suffocated the weeds out using the newspaper method Lee talks about and the only weeds I had were little things that were in the manure pile, they pulled out really easily. Preparing the ground doesn't have to be back breaking. I highly reccomend his book. http://www.crfg.org/pubs/bkrev/WeedlessGardening.html
I get a lot of seeds form the store bought foods I eat. How does store bought veggies rate for saving seeds...squashes, cantaloupes, tomatoes, etc.?
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Waterthrush wrote:
I was just looking for this thread! I knew I had seen it somewhere. What you say is true, but so hard to accept. It isn't easy to prepare beds and such for serious gardening. I am one of the world's worst gardeners, and need even more lead time. Yet, I keep putting it off.
Pops was saying something about a doomerish feeling. I've got it too, and a sinking feeling that I should have started this last year. I wonder what I could put in the ground here in Central New Jersey that could grow through the summer.
Yea, I am a procrastinator too.
Checking in and bookending are useful tools.
I am a great starter but poor finisher, so bookending helps me out sometimes.
When you open up a bookend, you commit to the group whatever you want to accomplish, then report the success or failure after the bookend time is expired.
If it is a long process you have undertaken, report back periodically for check-ins or advice while the bookend is open.
Once completed, commit to another bookend. This keeps the momentum going.
The bookends also energize others on the list to get motivated.
Don't over stress yourself, you can work within your comfortable capabilities.
If you fail at a time frame, redo the bookend and give yourself another chance.
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Waterthrush wrote:
I am really taking in all these responses. I do have a tiny (8' square) square foot garden started - not completely planted - but I got such a late start on it that I was unable to use seed the way the SFG plan advocates, and I ended up buying some veggie starts from the local nursery. I was going to plant this grand winter garden and all, but the weather turned brutal here in NJ in late Jan., and the cold did not let up until May!
Still, I won't have that luxury, of fallbacks and being able to put things off, after peak oil, so I know I need to list my goals for the near, intermediate, and long term - and start doing! I'm happy to say that the stuff I threw in the ground is doing wonderfully - romaine lettuce, a cherry tomato plant, and some broccoli. But, that won't go far.
Last year I took a daylong home gardener workshop and carried home tons of information - have I reviewed it? No.
In the near term, one thing I have to figure out is how much one person needs to produce.
I'll be working on this and other goals soon. Thanks again for this thread.
Things ARE seeming very doomerish out there. Pay attention to world events, or start focusing very much on the household?
In your case, f you have little space for gardening, you need to put more effort in your pantry and eating from there. And you supplement your pantry with your garden. You can also forage for wild foods and animals if available.
We don't have much land, about 45' x 75' for gardening. They say for real self sufficiency one needs an acre minimum for each person. (for gardening as well as animals for meat, milk, eggs).
Check out
The can opener gourmet
by Karr, Laura
Pantry Cooking : quick and easy food storage recipes
by Robins, Laura
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1120 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
vfr wrote:
I get a lot of seeds form the store bought foods I eat. How does store bought veggies rate for saving seeds...squashes, cantaloupes, tomatoes, etc.?
v
Most of those are hybrids. They'll probably grow but the fruit you get from them won't be exactly like the original. _________________ What, so I'm in no end game
Move my piece right off the board
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Quote:
Most of those are hybrids. They'll probably grow but the fruit you get from them won't be exactly like the original.
Or, you'll get beautiful plants that won't bear any fruit at all. Often, for example, tomato hybrids (that produce lovely big fruit the first year) will produce cherry tomatoes the second.
Try it, but don't depend on it for your seeds. You're better off to spend the money and buy some heirloom, open-pollinated seeds. Then you know what you're getting and can save the seeds from year to year.
K
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1195 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
Re using supermarket fruit/veges for seeds. You never know what you're gonna get. Could be something good! Could be a flop. Won't know till you try it. I think it's worth trying if you've got room for an experimental plot. _________________ Kind regards, Katkinkate
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops,
but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
Masanobu Fukuoka
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
I agree with both CarlinsD and Katinkte.
My experience: Store bought red bell peppers are extremely easy to take seed from. I did - perhaps six or eight years ago. I planted the seeds, in pots indoors, as that is the way I grow peppers here in Stockholm. (59th parallell, almost like Anchorage Alaska). I got a wide variety of plants - some with lots of fruit some very little or none. I save seeds from the best, and have kept going since. I get surprises, god and bad, most years, but the yield has increased over the years. I usually grow about 5 plants.
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Re: You need to start your post peak gardens NOW (long rant)
I've increased my garden area by a substantial amount this year. Roughly 7500 sq ft.
Some of it will be setup in rotation but most of it will be potatoes, corn and squash and beans.
I've had an extensive seed collection up to now but I"m not going to risk planting seeds that are too old to pollonate so I'm planning on tossing them all and starting this year anew.
There is an organic conference at the University of Guelph annually and that is a great source for getting OP seed. I"m going to invest heavily this year and then start a seed saving regimine.
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