Gas Will Stay Aout Where It Is Now. Somewhere Between $2 and $2.50
5%
[ 4 ]
Modest Increase. Between $2.50 and $3.
25%
[ 19 ]
Big Increase But No New Record. Gas $3 to $3.50
40%
[ 30 ]
New Record! Gas between $3.50 and $5.
27%
[ 20 ]
Oil Madness! Gas goes to $5 and Beyond.
1%
[ 1 ]
Total Votes : 74
Author
Message
FoolYap Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 362 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way&
MarkJames wrote:
Higher heating fuel prices haven't substantially changed the habits of our heating oil, kerosene and propane customers. Many are still living in the same poorly insulated/weatherized homes and still running the same ancient oversized, inefficient, poorly designed heating systems. Failure is still the number one cause of system replacement. We have some of the highest electric rates in the nation @16 ˘/Kwh, but we still have countless customers with old inefficient appliances, A/C units, electric water heaters and/or electric baseboard heat. When I've built spec homes in the past A/C was an option, but now it's almost a requirement whether it's a new construction home, renovation, modular or mobile home.
I don't think many people understand where their money goes. It can be eye-opening for them to rigorously track their expenses down to the penny for a few months.
I think of our finances like a bucket. Income fills it, expenses are like leaks that drain it. People seem to notice very large "leaks", like replacing a heating system or buying a new efficient appliance. They aren't as aware of the little leaks, or they downplay their significance. Because they're not really tracking how much these leaks add up to, they make bad financial decisions.
Or, maybe they're just stupid.
For couples, it also helps when you're both on the same page, financially. When I'd talk to my ex about spending money to save money, on energy efficiency, she would get very irritated because to her it was like pouring the money down a black hole. She couldn't "see" the benefits, as compared to (say) buying new furniture where she could tangibly see what the money had purchased. Sigh.
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
Stupid, yeah, and conditioned by the ad industry, too. Even the prez sez, after 9/11, "Go shopping!" Good little sheeple! Follow the herd, now.....
My brother in law drives his Ford Explorer a block and a half to the Stop and Go to buy junk food, and is on a fad diet..... Well, Dad said nobody was completely useless, they could always serve as a bad example. Okay, rant off now.
I guess you folks know the quote i saw attributed to Kurt Vonnegut:
"Here's what I think the truth is: We're all fossil fuel addicts in a state of denial, about to face cold turkey". Yup, that's my bro-in-law. He's really conerned about what others think of his status symbols. At 66 yrs. old, has to go back to work to pay for 'em, 'cause retirement income dropped and his spending didn't.
There is no way that common sense can get in the way of a shrivelled ego having it's way....
However, economics will have it's way in the end, and I think I see the tip of that iceberg in our poorer area.
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 362 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
patience wrote:
My brother in law drives his Ford Explorer a block and a half to the Stop and Go to buy junk food, and is on a fad diet..... Well, Dad said nobody was completely useless, they could always serve as a bad example. Okay, rant off now.
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way&
FoolYap wrote:
I don't think many people understand where their money goes. It can be eye-opening for them to rigorously track their expenses down to the penny for a few months.
I think of our finances like a bucket. Income fills it, expenses are like leaks that drain it. People seem to notice very large "leaks", like replacing a heating system or buying a new efficient appliance. They aren't as aware of the little leaks, or they downplay their significance. Because they're not really tracking how much these leaks add up to, they make bad financial decisions.
What's funny is that many people are aware of the large leaks such as oversized 50 to 60% efficiency heating equipment, poor insulation, poor weatherization and single pane windows, but they don't do anything about it. They're giving their money to the fuel and utility companies as opposed to adding value to their home and increasing their comfort levels. Many heating fuel companies offer pre-season pre-buy or price-capped fuel programs, but many customers don't take advantage of these programs. They're usually the first to complain about high fuel prices. Most DIY types can easily make basic weatherization improvements to the building envelope or ductwork for a very reasonable cost. The majority of furnace plenums, ductwork and take-offs we see aren't sealed.
We had a service call for frozen pipes in a basement recently. The homeowner had cracked basement windows, huge gaps around doors and tons of air infiltration around wall penetrations. Their solution was to pop another 6 inch air hole in the ductwork to heat the basement with their 60% efficiency furnace rather than fix the windows, buy some weatherstripping, caulk, insulation and expanding foam.
Efficiency has always been a tough sell even when the ROI is excellent. People are willing to spend big bucks on things like marble, granite, tile, hardwood, stainless appliances, kitchen and bath remodels, but when it comes to insulation, ventilation, furnaces, boilers and water heaters all they do is complain about price. Customers often don't want to spend money on things tucked away in the basement, or things hidden by earth, concrete, sheathing or drywall. Many will buy new vehicles, toys, furniture, appliances or large flat screen televisions before they'll upgrade their mechanical systems.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
I'm a newbie here, but felt the need to respond to this. I'm one of the people paying high heating bills who should probably make repairs to her home first. I don't condone people spending a lot of money on cosmetics rather than properly functioning systems. However, when it comes down to having to cut out necessities, it can take some people a while to build up the necessary funds to purchase new equipment, and will take time to recoup those costs, too.
For newer homeowners who don't have a lot of money saved, it's imperative to have heat first, and then replace the system when you have the money to do so. See, I can manage to scrounge up the hundreds of dollars a month it takes to heat my place, but to cough up thousands (in addition to the heating costs) just isn't an option. I refuse to start accruing credit card debt for repairs - that's just not how I was raised. So until I save up enough money to upgrade the systems, I have to make do with what is there.
With thinking about peak oil, too, I wonder if I should stay in my current house (with oil heat) a lot longer, or try to find a place that is more sustainable. It's risky in any case, and I don't think I could sell my home with enough money to recover the remaining mortgage since the housing bubble burst here. Not yet, in any case.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
myra, Welcome!
In the present real estate market, selling seems unlikely. To better tough it out where you are, I would suggest looking at shutting off all areas that you don't absolutely have to heat. You can do that by closing doors and blocking heat registers, or shutting off heat in whatever means your system requires. Set your heating thermostat at a lower level and wear more clothes. Serve a hot breakfast instead of cold cereal, and use the microwave instead of the stovetop, where possible. Crock pots use less energy to cook than ovens. Minimize oven use.
The next thing is sealing up air leaks. Windows are usually the worst offenders, and doors. Weatherstrip doors, and plastic cover windows. You CAN cover widows indide and out, but you risk condensation problems. At least do it inside. Teach the kids to open and shut doors quickly. Use gaskets to seal outlet covers. Minimize use of bathroom vent fans.
Reset the water heater thermostat to a lower level, wash clothes in cold water, and take short showers. Don't run the washing machine or dishwasher until it is completely full. Hang clothes to dry in unheated/unused rooms , or the garage in cold weather, rather than use the dryer. Convert to CFL's as light bulbs burn out.
Most of these ideas cost little or nothing to do, and the savings can be big. Best wishes! Jerry
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 362 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
patience wrote:
Minimize use of bathroom vent fans.
That's helpful for indoor humidity levels, too. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to do it prior to this winter, but my wife and I've been leaving the upstairs bathroom door open and exhaust fan off during our morning showers, and the upstairs at least has not not been too dry any more.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
Patience - thanks for the welcome and reply. I actually do do most of that stuff already.
I have a gas range, and oil heat, so electric use hasn't been much of a problem for me yet - it's mainly the oil used to heat the house. I do use my crockpot fairly often.
My washer's hot cycle doesn't work, so there is no way I could do a hot wash if I wanted to, and it's always filled to the brim. My dryer is also gas/electric. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of unused rooms I can hang clothes to dry in, and we don't have a garage.
Don't have a bathroom vent fan either, and my bathroom ceiling shows it
Don't have any kids to leave doors open.
Unfortunately, the least used rooms in the house do not have doors installed on them. I have six separate zones though, so I don't heat those rooms when we're not going to be there.
Already converting to CFLs when incandescent bulbs burn out.
We all (3 people) shower only every 2 days. I can't stay in long because I have eczema that is made worse by being in the water too long.
Mainly, I guess the only thing I can do is more weatherproofing. The house is old (about 100 years old), has a mishmosh of old and new windows, and is made of wood. A lot of places the owners did not put on molding around the windows. We have covered the worst offenders in plastic, but could probably do that more.
Still, my heating oil bills easily total to around $2500 a year for a 1500 square foot house
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
myra_viveash wrote:
I'm a newbie here, but felt the need to respond to this. I'm one of the people paying high heating bills who should probably make repairs to her home first. I don't condone people spending a lot of money on cosmetics rather than properly functioning systems. However, when it comes down to having to cut out necessities, it can take some people a while to build up the necessary funds to purchase new equipment, and will take time to recoup those costs, too.
We witnessed the same type of situations when we use to deliver fuel to HEAP customers and when we used to perform work for the Weatherization Assistance Program. The taxpayers, and the customers themselves were effectively paying us for several hundred extra gallons of propane, heating oil or kerosene per-customer-per-year rather than insulating, weatherizing, or upgrading their heating systems.
Some customers didn't have credit, some didn't have money, but the majority of them spent their money on other things. When we'd tell them about simple weatherization upgrades they could perform themselves, they were generally uninterested. Sometimes you'd have to twist their arms before they'd allow you to perform efficiency upgrades at cost! Customers with 5K tax refunds would spend their money on boats, snowmobiles and/or other luxuries and bad habits. Credit qualified customers wouldn't take advantage of no interest financing plans. Many fuel companies offered pre season, pre-buy and price capped fuel sales, but many customers didn't take advantage of the plans.
Since many of the low income or frugal customers wouldn't maintain their equipment and let their tanks run dry, they'd end up paying for service, emergency service, emergency fuel delivery or repair and replacement of frozen or burst pipes and very costly cracked boilers as well.
With Heating Oil at close to $3.60 and Kerosene at close to $4.00 per gallon delivered in some areas, unnecessarily burning several hundred gallons of fuel per year really adds up.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Gas prices stop travel? Americans say ‘no way’
mrya, Lack if doors can be temporarily fixed with doubled blankets and a staple gun. Next, I would look for styrofoam (if possible from packing material) and make push-fit panels to cover windows you can do without (inside). Tape on aluminum foil on the inside, over the styrofoam and get a big R factor boost on the windows. Seal to the window with tape. This made a BIG difference on my basement widows. The foil is an infrared barrier, reflects heat back into the house.
Then, look into insulation, especially in the attic. Google foil insulation. This stuff is making a big difference in our attic. Get the perforated stuff for attics. Just roll it out over whatever is there, assuming there is some bulk insulation already,, if not, fiberglas first. Our 25x 50 attic cost us about $200 to do the foil ourselves, including UPS.
Foundations can be a big leak area, often addressed in the country with bales of hay or straw all around it to stop drafts under the house. In any case, plug up foundation vents in winter, then open again in warm weather to keep it dry.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3346 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: THE Gas Price Thread
Quote:
High gas prices spawn songs, symbolic acts
Americans get creative in their protests as pump costs soar
PITTSBURGH - Americans facing rising gasoline and diesel prices are cycling about, saddling up, singing out and, sometimes, resorting to violent symbolism. …
Those actions are being done in the name of protest, but three western Pennsylvania school officials who plan to walk 216 miles to raise awareness of the factors driving up gas prices don't want to call it a protest march. …
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: High gas prices spawn songs, symbolic acts
How come nobody protests that:
Movie Tickets are $11
IPHONES are $400
Starbucks Coffee is $5
ETC....
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: $2, $3, $5, $7, and $10 gasoline price comparisons- shocking
I dug up this excellent post up from a few years ago and wanted to repost it here. The US could be approaching $5 gallon gasoline quite soon. Maybe within 6 months. Basically, large gas guzzlers will be practically extinct at $10 per gallon.
$5 gasoline:
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10
average mpg 10
$10,000 per year fuel cost
$833 per month fuel cost
Yikes!
Quote:
Here are some startling gasoline price figures I came up with doing calculations from this site: Economy
I have calculated some different vehicles and some varying gas prices. Then added them together. All vehicles were calculated at driving 20,000 miles per year and 45% highway/55% city driving, which I feel is average for many American suburbanite drivers.
gas at $2 per gallon/ 87 octane
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10 average mpg 10 $3,330 per year fuel cost $276 per month fuel cost
-2003 Honda Insight hybrid average mpg 64 $469 per year fuel cost $39 per month fuel cost
-2005 Ford Explorer 4WD average mpg 16 $2,500 per year fuel cost $208 per month fuel cost
-1992 Chevrolet 2WD Suburban average mpg 14 $2,857 per year fuel cost $238 per month fuel cost
-1988 Honda Civic CRX HF average mpg 53 $755 per year fuel cost $63 per month fuel cost
-1997 Chevrolet Malibu average mpg 23 $1739 per year fuel cost $145 per month fuel cost
-2002 Toyota Corolla average mpg 34 $1,176 per year fuel cost $98 per month fuel cost
gas at $3 per gallon/ 87 octane
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10 average mpg 10 $6,000 per year fuel cost $500 per month fuel cost
-2003 Honda Insight hybrid average mpg 64 $938 per year fuel cost $78 per month fuel cost
-2005 Ford Explorer 4WD average mpg 16 $3,750 per year fuel cost $313 per month fuel cost
-1992 Chevrolet 2WD Suburban average mpg 14 $4,286 per year fuel cost $357 per month fuel cost
-1988 Honda Civic CRX HF average mpg 53 $1132 per year fuel cost $94 per month fuel cost
-1997 Chevrolet Malibu average mpg 23 $2609 per year fuel cost $217 per month fuel cost
-2002 Toyota Corolla average mpg 34 $1,765 per year fuel cost $147 per month fuel cost
gas at $5 per gallon/ 87 octane
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10 average mpg 10 $10,000 per year fuel cost $833 per month fuel cost
-2003 Honda Insight hybrid average mpg 64 $1,563 per year fuel cost $130 per month fuel cost
-2005 Ford Explorer 4WD average mpg 16 $6,250 per year fuel cost $521 per month fuel cost
-1992 Chevrolet 2WD Suburban average mpg 14 $7,143 per year fuel cost $595 per month fuel cost
-1988 Honda Civic CRX HF average mpg 53 $1887 per year fuel cost $157 per month fuel cost
-1997 Chevrolet Malibu average mpg 23 $4348 per year fuel cost $362 per month fuel cost
-2002 Toyota Corolla average mpg 34 $2,941 per year fuel cost $245 per month fuel cost
gas at $7 per gallon/ 87 octane
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10 average mpg 10 $14,000 per year fuel cost $1,167 per month fuel cost
-2003 Honda Insight hybrid average mpg 64 $2,188 per year fuel cost $182 per month fuel cost
-2005 Ford Explorer 4WD average mpg 16 $8,750 per year fuel cost $729 per month fuel cost
-1992 Chevrolet 2WD Suburban average mpg 14 $10,000 per year fuel cost $833 per month fuel cost
-1988 Honda Civic CRX HF average mpg 53 $2,642 per year fuel cost $220 per month fuel cost
-1997 Chevrolet Malibu average mpg 23 $6,087 per year fuel cost $507 per month fuel cost
-2002 Toyota Corolla average mpg 34 $4,118 per year fuel cost $343 per month fuel cost
gas at $10 per gallon/ 87 octane
-2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Pickup 2WD V10 average mpg 10 $20,000 per year fuel cost $1,667 per month fuel cost
-2003 Honda Insight hybrid average mpg 64 $3,125 per year fuel cost $260 per month fuel cost
-2005 Ford Explorer 4WD average mpg 16 $12,500 per year fuel cost $1,042 per month fuel cost
-1992 Chevrolet 2WD Suburban average mpg 14 $14,286 per year fuel cost $1,191 per month fuel cost
-1988 Honda Civic CRX HF average mpg 53 $3,774 per year fuel cost $315 per month fuel cost
-1997 Chevrolet Malibu average mpg 23 $8,696 per year fuel cost $725 per month fuel cost
-2002 Toyota Corolla average mpg 34 $5,882 per year fuel cost $490 per month fuel cost
I think we can all see how devastating rises in gasoline prices will be for the average American driver. And not to mention most drivers are also making monthly payments on their vehicles.
Also, many American families own 2 SUV's or pick-up trucks for their daily commutes. :Shocked:
I have come up with 20,000 miles per year average due to the fact that many Americans commute from the suburbs 60+ miles one way to work:
120 miles round trip.
500 miles per week.
2,000 miles per month.
24,000 miles per year.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: $2, $3, $5, $7, and $10 gasoline price comparisons- shoc
IanC wrote:
Don't you thing people will ditch the SUVs long before the $10 mark? By that time, there will be serious decline in demand...maybe.
Welcome to the site!
-Ian
Portland, OR.
Thanks!
Yes, I do think the SUV's will be ditched by then. The chart is just for reference. I think around $7 per gallon there will be very few guzzling trucks and SUV's on the road in the US. Regarding demand, it will hit the ceiling and then demand will drop due to high prices. But once demand drops, so do prices. Then, of course demand rises again after that. A continuous cycle, but never permanent demand destruction. I am guessing that each demand drop will only be temporary until rising again.
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I think around $7 per gallon there will be very few guzzling trucks and SUV's on the road in the US. Regarding demand, it will hit the ceiling and then demand will drop due to high prices. But once demand drops, so do prices. Then, of course demand rises again after that. A continuous cycle, but never permanent demand destruction. I am guessing that each demand drop will only be temporary until rising again.
