[Food] Production - Goats & Sheep

rattleshirt · Tar Sands Joined: Oct 26, 2006 Posts: 94

Kathy-
Please post any results on building your own milker, that is just the sort of thing I'd like to do.

Also has anyone heard of Arapawa Goats. They are from an island off the coast of New Zealand and are supposed to be the only remaining decendents of the old English Milch Goats. I would like to check them out but the closest place I can find is in Massachussetts (I'm in Indiana).

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

rattleshirt,
I'll be happy to report on any results. I have to call the lady I mentioned tomorrow and see what she says. It may be a while before we can actually build one, but I can pass along any info she gives in the meantime.

I don't know of that breed of goats. I'm googling it now. You've got me curious.

Shanny,
Our feed store, for some reason, couldn't get the 140 ml syringe from their regular supplier. The nearest TSC is 45 minutes away from here, so I just went ahead and ordered it from Valley Vet on line ($11.49 with shipping for a plastic syringe Rolling Eyes

). Hopefully it will be here in a few days and then here's hoping it actually fits.

Kathy

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5138 Location: Oklahoma

Yow, that is pricey. Fingers crossed, let us know! Anyway, at least you know you've got a good milker. Smile

If you ever need to sell her for some reason you could probably get a good price, too - and her offspring.
_________________
"Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

Shanny,
She was a registered ADGA Nubian at her former residence. I haven't done it yet, but will re-register her under our farm name before she's bred this fall. That way I can sell the babies from her and Ringo (who's also registered) at a higher price. They both come from very good lines, both for showing and producing milk. So I'm hopeful we'll get a good return on the babies in addition to all that good milk. This year's babies were unexpected (and not conceived here anyway), so I can't register them under our farm name... they'll sell cheaper.

If anyone wants a beautiful, purebred Nubian buckling (or wether), let me know Smile

They'll sell cheap Smile

.

I found an interesting website today - more information that you ever wanted to know about goat biology.

Goat Biology

The part that was interesting to me (one of the parts, anyway) was the section on fecal exams for controlling parasites. There's a step-by-step guide to doing your own fecal exams. One of these days I'll be doing that. Not only do you save on the cost of worming, IMO it's better for the goats to avoid all those chemicals if you can.

Kathy

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5138 Location: Oklahoma

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

You are correct, Shanny. What I should have said, is that I'm going to register as the new owner of Sugar - not register her under our farm name.

As for the babies, yes, it is possible to register them under the farm where they were conceived, but then we would have to do a new bill of sale, etc., showing that I purchased them from the original owner. We assume we know the sire, but there were two bucks (grandfather and grandson) who it could have been, so we're not 100% sure. The grandson, BTW, is Ringo, who I have now. I actually think it was his grandfather, Playboy. The babies look much more like him. Anyway, the prior owner hasn't shown much interest in helping to register the babies with her farm name, and even though I've had Sugar and Ringo since shortly after conception, I haven't gotten around to transferring the paperwork to show us as new owners yet ... so we just let it drop. Yeah, I know, I need to do that.

Here's a question you might be able to help with...

My original doe (who I just love - that's her in my avatar), Cinnamon, was at one time registered - I'm sure of it. She has a tattoo in her ear that I have never been able to read clearly. I know the lady's name who I bought her from, but this lady would never even give me a receipt of purchase, let alone any paperwork regarding Cinnamon's registration. She was nice enough, but terribly unorganized and just would NOT return emails and such. I finally gave up. I'm wondering, if I call ADGA with the lady's name, if I might be able to determine Cinnamon' herd name, and get her registered as well. She's a beautiful Nubian and a great milker. It would seem a shame not to be able to register her.

Honestly, I never even thought about registering any of the goats till recently. I was just interested in having milkers. But, since we're going to have to sell babies anyway, I might as well get a better price.

Kathy

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5138 Location: Oklahoma

Aha, that makes sense.

Too bad about the former owner's unwillingness to help. I would think the registry would have records. It's too bad you can't read the tattoo, but they should have the previous owner's name and address on file if Cinnamon was ever registered in her name. I really don't know how strict they are regarding paperwork and such. I remember when I bought my goats being shocked how much paperwork was involved, especially since they were registered with three different associations.
_________________
"Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

Well, I called ADGA. I gave them Cinnamon's previous owner's name. They said if she was a current member, they'd be able to look up the herd name. Unfortunately, she is not a current member. I also asked if they could give me information based on the tattoo if I could figure it out. They don't do that.

So, the only option I have to get Cinnamon registered, is to register her as "grade" rather than purebred. To do that, I have to get a current ADGA member to write a statement stating that Cinnamon "conforms to Nubian breed standard." Then they'll register her as a "grade Nubian." Better than not registered, but certainly not up to par for her.

ADGA is sending me additional information to get everything going - herd name established, tattoo info, and getting everybody transferred and/or registered. I should have started this process months ago.... you're right, there is a lot of paperwork... Shocked

All this just because I wanted fresh milk... Laughing

Kathy

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

Why can none of my animals just have a "normal" day? Or perhaps drama is normal for them....

I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but until we got Ringo, I had to send my girls off to be bred each year. Well the last time they were sent off (which was while I was away from the forums), they ended up staying a LOOOONG time. We were in the midst of trying to adopt our boys, traveling a lot, etc., and the person they were with said, "no problem..." so we just left them there for several months.

Anyway, both Cinnamon and Spice came home in August last year. They'd never been bred, and were both dry. (Apparently the buck they were put in with was sterile... I don't know.) I wasn't quite ready for them at the time, but the person who had them called me - she said she was in the middle of getting a divorce, and that she had moved out of the house. Her husband, who was supposed to be caring for the animals until she made arrangements to move them, had apparently fallen down on the job, to say the least. She said she'd been gone for a month (from the looks of the does when I got them, it was longer than that). When she went to check on them, all of her milking does had dried up from not being milked, and everyone was underweight, including my two does. So, we got them back. They were skinny (and wormy) and didn't look good. It's taken me till now to get them back to condition, and I would still like a little more weight on them. Their feet were also way overgrown. They were just NOT in good condition.

When they came back, Spice, my LaMancha, also came back with a nasty case of mastitis on one side. I was just livid, but there's nothing I could do but just be mad. It was too late at that point. I have no idea how long she had it before she came home, but it was bad. Pure pus, swollen and hot. Hard as a rock. We treated her by infusing pennicillin into the teat over several days, and within a few days, the mastitis was cleared up. She wasn't milking then, and I've always heard that mastitis in a dry doe isn't as serious as in one who is currently milking, so I figured she was okay once we got it cleared up.

Well, now we have her bred to freshen in the first week of May. She and Cinnamon are both just about 3 months along now, and both are just barely starting to develop a very small udder. Today I was out in the barn, and noticed that on Spice, only ONE side of her udder is developing. I called my friend Donna, and she said it's possible the mastitis she had when we brought her home has damaged her udder and she's lost half of it Sad

.

Damn. She is such a good milker, too. Donna said it may also be that one side is just developing more slowly, and it may come on in. But there's no way to really know for sure until she freshens. I am just sick. And mad as hell.

I guess I should be glad that Sugar ended up freshening unexpectedly in January. At least I know I'll have extra milk if Spice is unable to produce enough milk for her babies due to her damaged udder. Now I just don't know what to do with her. She's my only LaMancha, so none of the kids will be purebred, and she'll likely only produce enough milk to raise babies - not extra for us. But I hate to cull her - who wants to buy a half-milking doe anyway....

I'm just heartsick. Crying or Very sad

K

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5138 Location: Oklahoma

That's terrible, Kathy. I'm often frustrated by how keeping livestock makes it pretty much impossible for us to travel, but it's just a trade-off I feel we have to make. I'm hoping that eventually we can cultivate a good enough relationship with our neighbors that we can make arrangements to go on short trips occasionally. Anyway, I hope Cinnamon's udder does develop. It seems a little early to give up hope completely, though I can understand why you are so angry.

Here's a picture of Reina's two kids, one male one female:

I got my burdizzo in the mail a couple of days ago. My husband is not amused. Shock

_________________
"Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young

Ludi

Oh Kathy, I'm so sorry. What a horrible story. You just can't trust people, it seems. Sad

Ang · Tar Sands Joined: Oct 31, 2007 Posts: 76

Hi Everybody!!

I've been a bit busy with moving and we just got our 50 chicks in the mail!! 1/2 Buff Orpington's and 1/2 Americanas. We have them in brooder boxes and they seem to be doing fine with the exception of some crusty butt (which I know has a name, but I can't think of it right now). I've been cleaning the vents and trying to keep on top of it. We haven't lost any yet!! One thing I find odd and called McMurray about, is that the feathers on some of their bellies are split and I can see their little purple bellies poking out. McMurray said I was doing everything I was supposed to be. Is that normal or ????????

Kathy, I'm sorry to hear about Spice...I hope she does round out quickly for you. Smile

I've been using the Maggidan milker on Molly and we always get off to a good start, but then I have to finish milking her by hand. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, I guess I should call them. Also, Molly was a pure milking delight but I think we inadvertently taught her bad manners. She didn't eat at the same time as being milked when we first got her, but since we read that that was how things worked, we started feeding her and now she won't stand still UNLESS she's eating and she finishes her grain in about half the time it takes me to milk her. Then she's bucking and moving about and generally being a pain in the backside. I'm going to go back to no food 'til after I've milked her and see how that goes.

Shanny, how much milk do you get from your does? Molly seems to be giving less and less and I'm guessing I'm not milking her enough to keep up the supply.

Anyway, as always, thanks for listening!!
Ang
Smile

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

Been a few days since I looked over this thread...

Shanny, adorable babies. I hope everyone is continuing to do well. Our little bucks are 35 pounds each now - I weigh taped them today. Growing like weeds, and still just as adorable. Smile

Spice's udder is still uneven, but maybe just a little development is starting on the bad side, so I haven't given up all hope. Both Cinnamon and Spice are getting big as houses, though. I expect babies to start arriving in just about 2 months from today, so the baby weight should start coming on quickly during the next few weeks. I'll have to start increasing their grain on day 100 of their pregnancy, so they'll be able to keep up with the growing babies. I've learned a WHOLE lot this year with the girls, watching them go through their pregnancies. Here's hoping for at least one doeling from Cinnamon Smile

.

Ang,
Baby chicks are almost as cute as baby goats Smile

. We generally order chicks each year as replacement hens for our layers. This year we'll be getting 20 Rhode Island Reds. I'm not having to pay for them this year, though, which is good. My oldest son is getting them through 4-H. They should arrive in the next couple weeks. He'll have to give three of them back at the county fair, but we get to keep the rest. I'm looking forward to it. Oh, and I've seen little bellies through the feathers before. Don't worry. They'll be fine. They don't need much. Just food, water, and warmth. Before long, they'll outgrow your brooder box and you'll be worrying about where to put them all Smile

.

I was able to get my Maggidan's milker working for Sugar, but only on one side. Last year she had a single kid, and because the baby didn't nurse evenly (this was before I got her - or I would have milked out the other side more often and prevented problems), she has one teat that is larger than the other. Anyway, I won't really be using it until Cinnamon and Spice freshen.

I haven't tried to milk Sugar out completely, though. I always leave some for the babies, since they're still nursing. Are you bottle feeding, Ang? If you aren't, you'd have to strip her out by hand anyway to prevent problems like mastitis, so finishing up by hand probably isn't a bad thing.

As for bad manners, goats will take advantage of you. When I first got Cinnamon, she wouldn't stand still for a milking for anything. She was a little witch. Basically I learned that you have to let them know you're not going to quit and eventually they'll figure out they can't bully you. My goats always get grain when they're on the stand. That's because I use my stand not only for milking, but other things as well, like feet trimming and shots, and other things they don't like. So, giving them grain is at least a treat for having to put up with me Smile

. It makes it a lot easier to get them up on the stand as well. In fact, I don't even have to lead Sugar to it in the mornings. I just open the door and she runs in and jumps up. She knows that's where breakfast is.

She often finishes her grain before I finish milking too, or just gets tired of me milking and decides to be contrary. I just keep on milking. Eventually she quits when she realizes I won't. Smile

As for the amount of milk you'll get, I know it is affected by how often you milk, but also by diet. My girls get about 3 lbs of alfalfa pellets per day, each. Sugar also gets extra grain, since she's producing milk. The rule is 3lbs of grain per day for each 8 lbs (one gallon) of milk she produces. Since I get about a half gallon each morning, I know she's producing at least twice that during a 24 hour period, even though the babies are drinking it all. So, in addition to her alfalfa, she gets 3 lbs mixed grains each day too (both are divided between morning and evening feedings).

The mixed grain I feed is mostly whole oats, but also with black oil sunflower seeds, corn (chops) and Calf Manna. I mix it myself and its a pretty complete diet. Of course, they also have free choice hay, baking soda, and minerals.

Moving Molly to the new location could have also caused her production to go down. Don't give up. It happens sometimes. Once she's settled in well, she should pick back up.

Kathy

roccman

Twice a day I get a backrub...nice huh?

(Lucy on shoulders...Molly being milked)

Ang took the picture - she too gets back rubs twice a day...
_________________
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins

"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis

We are going back to roccland - me

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1373

LOL Great pic! Very Happy

Lucy loves you Smile

My babies jump up on me all the time, but not like that Smile

.
Kathy