Should I do solar - opinions appreciated

TT

Hi all,

I joined this forum about 2 1/2 years ago. At that time we had moved into suburbia and were totally bored in our little suburban lot.

We then found out about peak oil and decided to go back to the country. We are both country folk born and bred. We were fortunate to be able to sell our house and buy 5 acres in a beautiful and bountiful area. We were also fortunate that my daughter lived in that location on her own 2 1/2 acres.

With the balance of our money we put in a fresh water bore, extended our water storage to 45,000 gallons, built storage sheds, established covered vegetable gardens (birds totally destroy gardens around here), planted fruit trees, built a hot house, installed wood cooking and water heating, built a chicken coop and a myriad of other things that help a sustainable life style including 3 years supply of food.

We were also fortunate enough to be able to help my daughter with her mortgage. She still has a small mortgage but is able to rent out her house for more than she has to pay out monthly. She has moved in with her partner and they are expecting their forst child. His house is within the village confines and reliant on town water and electricity. I anticipate that in the event of hardship they would rely more on our property for running water etc.

We also bought a little physical gold which we have stored against future land taxes so that our home remains secure.

Now we have about $17,000 left in the bank. That's it. We have a monthly age pension which is very small but sufficient for our daily needs. We do manage to save a little too. I have just got a job at the local pub cooking lunches. It will pay about $15 per hour and I'll only be doing 10-15 hours per week, but it will help greatly.

Electricity costs have been going up greatly in Aussie. I've also heard that we should expect more rises in price. We have also had a lot of power outs recently.

I am thinking that in the future solar panels/batteries are going to get more expensive. I am starting to think that maybe I should spend some money on solar now. But then I think that we might need what we have left for some emergency. We already cook with wood and heat with it too. But I would really like to be able to keep our freezer and TV/computer going. Some light in the evening would be nice too.

So I'm seeking opinions. I know a lot here would say "jeez, I wish I had that problem". I often don't post here because I know how many of you are battling just to survive day to day without being able to plan at all for tomorrow. I often feel guilty that we have so much. However, now that there is a grandchild on the way I am more energised to ensure our future. For myself and my husband - well, we are old. We have lived a good life. I have made many books of recipes and how-to for my daughter and have taught her how to grow and preserve food. In time she will inherit this house and I hope that the infrastructure will ensure her and her child's survival. That is what I am working towards.

So what do you guys think? Should I use the last of my savings to get solar power. Electricity makes life so much easier. I know it's not essential, but it's so much easier to pump water with electricity than to pump it by hand for instance.

WisJim

I think that solar is a great investment, as is modest scale wind power if you are in a good wind area. The return on investment can be reasonable, especially compared to today's low interest rates on savings. Solar water heating usually is considered to "pay for itself" quicker than solar electricity, but I think that the security of having your own electric system is worth the cost. We started doing this in 1977, when the equipment was much more expensive and harder to find, and add to our system as we can afford to. It has been a worthwhile investment.

I don't know if you already have electricity, or if this would be your primary source, and I also am not sure what PV prices are like there, but I would seriously consider a solar electric system. I would check into the cost of a solar water heating system too, and the desirability of doing that would depend in part on the cost of obtaining firewood to heat your water, and the difficulty of doing firewood as you get older--that is getting to be a concern to me.

tsakach · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 09, 2005 Posts: 326

Yes, by all means do solar man. Offhand I can't think of anybody who switched to solar and was unhappy about their decision later. It can be a stretch at times during long spells of rain or cloudy conditions, but you learn to go with the flow of what nature provides.

A lot of money can be saved up front by first doing an energy audit and looking for more efficient substitutes. An example is to replace a desktop computer with a notebook, and then replace the ac notebook power supply with a 12vdc power supply.

When I started I was barely able to get by, but after the 4th generation of reworking my setup, I put half of the panels into storage, and now only need half the number of batteries as well.

In a solar system, the cost of batteries is a primary concern - you will have to budget for replacing the batteries every few years.

But there are ways to extend the life of batteries, such as:

If you can, find sources of lead acid AGM batteries. The best type are 2v AGM forklift batteries. These will last a long time under proper care.

A metering system that measures amp hours that go into and out of storage batteries is vital to maintaining life of the batteries.

As WisJim mentioned, wind power would be an excellent addition. Even if small amounts of wind are available, this will extend the life of the batteries, in addition to being a great way of driving loads such as a water pump.

alokin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 24, 2007 Posts: 791

Here in QLD there are communities buying solar panels together and get them cheaper. Before buying solar cells, If you don't have it yet by a solar hot water to reduce your electricity use. We have 100% of our hot water solar.
If we would have the money we wouldn't bother.

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1504

I vote with others here in favor of solar electric, and the forklift batteries are a good, much longer term answer. For water pumping, though possible with solar electric, would probably be a lot more cost efficient using a windmill assuming you have enough wind. Your storage capacity makes that more feasible.

My approach to alternative energy is to exploit the cheapest sources first, and use the savings to help go further. You have wood cooking and water heating. Is home heating needed? Or home cooling? Passive solar home heating as a supplement is usually very cost effective, if you build it yourself. Likewise with solar water heating, or at least preheating to save fuel.

If you go with the good advice from others here, to reduce your ultimate usage, solar electric is a great benefit, and can be affordable. Learning to do your own system design and installation can save a vast amount of money, making the project more feasible. The best help I've found for that is a book, "Photvoltaics Design and Installation Manual", by Solar Energy International. Available directly from www.newsociety.com, or Amazon.com. It covers the whole process, start to finish.

Our priorities for solar electric planning were lights, refrigeration, and communication. Beyond those, we look for other solutions.

What great strides you have made! Congratulations, and best wishes for success!

edit: The link didn't work, nor does the publisher list it now, but Amazon does, for about $35 US.

TT

Thanks all for your opinions. This is an extremely hard decision as we have limited funds and I have always been extremely cautious with money.

We have invested in a windmill for our bore. It is a very deep bore and running an electric pump would have been expensive.

We also put in extra water tanks as it can be a long time between rains here and water security was something I really wanted.

We dont use a pump for pressure in the house, but have opted for a header tank. This is filled by a small pump run on a truck battery and charged by a small solar panel. As the pump only needs to work for about 10 minutes a day a trickle charger is ample.

We have considered solar hot water, but it would cost in the vicinity of $3500. As we have a wood cooker that heats water in winter, and has a back vent into a clothes drying cabinet we only need to heat water in summer. Hubby thinks that he can rig up a series of pipes over the roof that will preheat the water in summer to reduce electricity.

We do have mains electricity. It is expensive and getting more so every year. I also foresee a time when a small outlying village like ours will no longer be supplied. When that time comes I would really like to be able to keep my freezer and lights going. We don't need much else.

Just for interest here a couple of pictures of our gardens being prepared for autumn plantings.

PeakOiler

Invest in a solar water heater first. It is the one appliance that will reduce your electric bill the most, and leaves most of your savings intact. After one year, when you've determined the annual savings from the solar water heater, you can better estimate how much PV you really need.
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dunewalker

Yes, you can rig up some sort of solar water heating apparatus for very little money, like pipes on the roof, thermo-siphoning water into a simple tank, etc for the summer. In the winter you have your wood heat for water heating. We've done exactly this, with a beer keg for tank mounted high on the roof. Of course this system has to be drained in winter here. I put copper coils inside the stove pipe for heating water in winter, plumbed to a water heater set higher than the stove. It works very well and assists in house heating too. As for "just lights and a freezer" a freezer takes a LOT of electricity! I would recommend evolving away from freezer needs instead, for the future. For just lights a simple photovoltaic system is not very expensive, as you know from your experience pumping water up into the water tower for house pressurization. You could assemble a complete system complete with a panel or 2, small inverter, batteries, controller, switches & wiring for $1,000-$2,000. This would enable use of lights, computer, music/radio, small battery charging (ie AAs, etc) cordless drills...

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1504

dunewalker is right about the freezer! Our new GE 15 cu. ft. (Energy Star) has been using 900 watt hours/day for the past month. But that is a LOT of food, too. Over 300 lbs of boneless meat. Smaller ones are available, but we found that the very efficient ones cost so much that we were ahead to buy more solar panels. Gettimg by without the freezer definitely saves a lot.

I believe in redundancy for reliability, that is, two complete small systems are better than one big system. If your parts are the same, you can stock spares, or, cannabalize one to fix the other in an emergency. That also allows you to start small and learn better what you need without a huge commitment.

On inverters, these are most efficient when used well below max capacity, say in the 20% to 30% range. That can reduce wear on batteries. The more things that run directly on battery volage, the better. Beautiful place you have there!

bobaloo · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 14, 2004 Posts: 476

I'm in a vaguely similar situation, and my decision was to make an investment in PV panels, but not to try to power my existing house with them. A few years ago I bought four of the Unisys 64 watt thin film panels and a MMP charge controller, which I have stored in my shop. That's not nearly enough to power the things I run today, but it's more than enough to run lighting, radios, computers, etc. and greatly improve the quality of life if grid power goes down. I was able to put it all together for just a little over $1000 US at the time, which was affordable for me, versus $12,000-$15,000 at the time for a system to get me off-grid. It's more of an insurance policy than anything.

BTW, I also invested in a LOT of rechargeable batteries and several good chargers at the same time. They're getting cheaper and better all the time, do a search on ebay or some of the SE Asian places that sell online for good prices in bulk. The solar panels will charge a ton of AA rechargeables and that will keep a lot of stuff running. Charged AA's might be a good business someday...

goodmaj · Tar Sands Joined: Feb 01, 2008 Posts: 23 Location: Utah

Solar is a great idea, but you need to keep in mind when the SHTF that they are going to be at risk of being stolen or vandalized.

TT

patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1504

Amen to that TT. Life in the country has it's problems. The result is, it sorts out the ones who can deal with the problems, and they remain there. It's not a pushover kind of people that make out there. Urban areas have a similiar situation, but there are institutionalized ways of dealing with them. Rural life tends to select people who "skin their own skunks", in the local phrase.

Hawkcreek · Expert Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 967

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mistel · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 20, 2005 Posts: 139

Take a look here

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic30802.html

it's a super efficient fridge. I am still trying to talk the wife into it.