Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: Is America going to have a Revolution?
I was fascinated by an article which, after analyzing sociological research on revolutions, came to the conclusion that America was primed for a revolution. Here's the article. It list 8 factors underlying all previous revolutions and looks at modern American society to come to the conclusion we are primed.
Here's a link to the aricle: Is America primed for a Revolution?
So, I'm starting this thread to try and track evidence that a problem is brewing that could lead to a revolution in America. Here are some posts I made under the thread called "Our Constitution" that I will put here on this issue.
seahorse wrote:
Earlier, I posted an interesting article that asked, was the US on the verge of a revolution, and the article meant the violent type. That article is here:
Is US on verge of a revolution?
That article is fairly persuasive that real problems are developing an analysis those problems in relation to some previous studies on factors leading to a revolution.
In follow up to that article, look at some recent news:
Vermont Town votes to arrest Bush and Cheney:
Reuters
The thread here where Eco terrorist start burning nongreen homes:
PO Topic
Protestors go to Countrywide VP's home to protest the "loan sharks".
Yahoo Business
Lots of anger building out there.
seahorse2 wrote:
If you haven't read the article saying the US is primed for a violent revolution, you should. There was a housing riot, which only goes to show that the economic downturn leads to economic upheaval, as evidenced by this riot.
Quote:
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
BOCA RATON — A crowd of more than 500 people waiting for hours this morning for housing voucher applications were dispersed by police in riot gear at the Boca Raton Housing Authority when the applications ran out sooner than expected.
The action prompted complaints that officers used excessive tactics and housing authority officials were incompetent in their planning.
If people are losing their houses, meaning more homeless, and we don't have enough public housing, what are we to do? Looks like "the people" don't handle this very well. Is this a wake up for authorities?
Quote:
Several other things, such as mortgage foreclosures and high gas prices, are contributing to that feeling of insecurity and desperation, she said.
The IEA is expecting gas prices to increase, and so are we over at PO. So, I don't see this getting any better anytime soon, nor are the foreclosures getting any better. These riots may have just only started.
Quote:
The parking lot was a mass of women nursing crying babies, pushing strollers and waiting anxiously for officials to give them information.
People grew agitated. Several fights broke out. Police and firefighters said they were prepared if things were to turn violent on a large scale. Nearly 50 firefighters and paramedics from the city, county and Delray Beach set up across the street in the Town Center mall parking lot.
I hope they're prepared, and nationwide. Maybe that's why DHS contracted Halliburton to build all those detention facilities.
Quote:
"That's when all hell broke loose," said Shannon Pierce, 26, of Lake Worth. Pierce, who is six months pregnant and had been waiting in line since 6 a.m. "We almost got trampled over."
This all caused by high gas prices and mortgage foreclosures, imagine if people were actually hungry.
Quote:
"Frustration builds after you have been in line for hours," said Robert Nelligan, Boca Raton Fire Rescue division chief. "Then you are told 'no.' Emotions can take over."
Quote:
"This place is going to get shot up later," she yelled to officers. "They can't treat us like this."
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
We're not in as much turmoil as the 60s and there wasn't a political revolution in the 60s, so I don't see it happening yet. We're still waiting to see what happens in the next election.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
The difference between now & historic revolutions is we have a lot more sources of information saying there isn't going to be a revolution. When people used their own eyes, they saw 50% inflation, loss of free will & had revolutions. Now we've got CEO's & CFO's on the Goog to do that for us & they're finding no inflation, plenty of free will. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
heroineworshipper wrote:
The difference between now & historic revolutions is we have a lot more sources of information saying there isn't going to be a revolution. When people used their own eyes, they saw 50% inflation, loss of free will & had revolutions. Now we've got CEO's & CFO's on the Goog to do that for us & they're finding no inflation, plenty of free will.
wait, you're saying in the past information was not filtered by those in power? well, i'll be....
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 599 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
No, there will be no revolution while many (but certainly not all) of those people wailling and whining are those that have been sitting on their butts getting entitlements but can't make ends meet. If they revolt, hey they might have to go to work and even get by on less.
Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 225 Location: West of Chicago
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
The article started out correctly and then slid into a rant of socialist cliches. From lining the pockets of the political insiders to the unfair tax burden and then with the financial mismanagement and currency devaluation, it went right downhill.
The two with the ability to bring revolution are Ron Paul and Obama. Obama's still too establishmentarian and Ron Paul isn't electable. Ron Paul is my guy but if it's McCain vs. Obama, Obama gets my vote. Unfortunately, the word "change" has become a campaign buzzword and little more.
Those who look to the government to make their own lives better are fools.
If you get cranky with me about the above statement, think of how you'll feel when calls start going out for the government to do something about the high price of fuel.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Fishman wrote:
No, there will be no revolution while many (but certainly not all) of those people wailling and whining are those that have been sitting on their butts getting entitlements but can't make ends meet. If they revolt, hey they might have to go to work and even get by on less.
Seeing as work will be harder to come by in a recession, I'm guessing that the deadbeats today will be joined by the ranks of the former middle class, made poorer from the credit/housing collapse & cessation of federal entitlements like the mortgage interest deduction and earned-income child credits. This will give rise to neo-populism, for better or worse. _________________ “I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.” George Carlin
Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 225 Location: West of Chicago
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Whoa, timeout. I have to apologize for the above rant. I did a little poking around and it looks like alternet.org isn't a bastion of scholarship and critical thought but a socialist kibbutz.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
With a situation such as this one, you can have revolts, riots, uprising, mutinies, etc, but those do not make revolutions, although they are a part of it. In order to have a revolution, you need to have some ideas regarding society, it's ills and how to solve them - and now you have none.
Things would be easier if you had some sort of organized revolutionary movement, like the Spanish Anarcho-sindicalists or the Russian Bolsheviks. Without plans, without organization, without leadership, events will unravel in the most chaotic fashion and social reorganization (if people manage to get there) will be painful - to say the least.
BTW: you know, wars tend to accelerate the process and military discontentment makes winning a lot easier, because disgruntled soldiers tend to join the revolutionaries instead of obeying the rich and firing at them. Given the iraqui-afghani quagmire, I would say condition for a victorious revolution (from the military stand-point) are just optimal.
Last edited by JFT on Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
One of the first factors behind revolutions was economic upheaval. Keep in mind, we in the US are very early in this game. As Lincoln once said, men dont make the times, times make great men. So, will there be a revolution tomorrow? No. But anyone who doesnt see the seeds of discontent is not being honest with the facts. We are on the verge of an unprecedented financial collapse which hasnt been seen since the Great Depression, we are in a very unpopular war, we see discontent and fracturing on the immigration issue, we see a Presidential candidate Obama riding the wave of "change." Its very early, and already people on Boca Raton are rioting and claiming they will start shooting.
Joined: May 13, 2007 Posts: 569 Location: Athabasca, Alberta
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Interesting how easily people answer no.
Read letters from the early stages of the American Revolutions and people (who fought on the revolutionary side) were still referring to themselves as loyal subjects of the King and referred to the redcoats as "regulars". _________________ Appuis ait fabrum esse suae quemque fortunae.
Alias Redneck
Joined: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 494 Location: Washington State
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
canis_lupus wrote:
Whoa, timeout. I have to apologize for the above rant. I did a little poking around and it looks like alternet.org isn't a bastion of scholarship and critical thought but a socialist kibbutz. My bad.
Yes, and the article was written by an ex-pat living in Canada and talking like she was part of the solution. She lost me in the Deserted intellectual section. Typical liberal drivel. We the unwashed masses need the direction of liberal minded intellectuals to meet our needs.
Remember the neocons of today were the liberals of yesterday. _________________ This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3455 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
The ultra right-wing gun nuts have been talking about this for a least a year. When white middle aged gun owning male suburban types get mad enough we will have a revolution on our hands.
You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah
ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
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