Research petrol from pines could run nation’s car fleet

Graeme

IslandCrow

eric_b

stooopid

Greyharp

This has got to be a better idea than turning grain for human consumption into fuel. Sadly though, what this kind of thinking assumes is that we can and should continue living as if we have infinite resources. Greening up fuel is wonderful, but how are they going to make the manufacture of vehicles and their engines clean and sustainable?

The minerals from which we extract ores are finite, they're not going to last forever, especially at the rate the world is consuming them at the moment. Whether it is in our lifetime, or that of our children or grandchildren, like oil, the amounts of ore needed for large-scale production are just not going to be there any more.

sparky · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 133

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there is not enough spare land to make large quantity of the stuff (even if it work )
the sawmills now use the " rejects "
if they could make 90 millions liters a year with what they waste ,
they probably would be out of business now as grossly inefficient

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Temperedoil

There will be more pine trees available once New Zealand stops exporting logs, timber, pulp and paper and related products, but we still need to keep some timber to build houses for the influx of refugees - including ex-pat Kiwis coming home.

I do think that we would be better off moving New Zealand to a non-growth sustainable economy / society, though. Which would include reserving our domestic oil production for emergency services and the military and stopping the sale of petrol and diesel (or replacements) to the general public (something which is likely to happen in the years ahead anyway). Domestic oil production will be needed for other essential oil products that we use, too. Such as agrichemicals and pharmaceuticals, certainly not including consumer products such as cell phones and toy cars.

sparky · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 133

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Any government which restrict the divine right of people to drive car will be overthrow .
Politicians know that as a fact , and they ARE elected by motorists
This is a basic freedom , only rationing through price , introduced gradually can possibly be tolerated ,

like frog in heating water Laughing

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Temperedoil

sparky · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 133

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People are , by and large , rational and prefer an equal rationing system to a black market penury .

the IEA procedure for dealing with an oil shock is a fine and useful practice , which is unfortunately of little use if the problem is basically
long term supply instead of a temporary disruption .
While the oil majors did a fair job of spreading the pain in 1973 in the aftermath of the yom kippur war , they could do little but pass the increases during the end of 79 oil shock .

There is no reasons to think they would be any better this time around ,
- non gulf supplies are tight , decreasing every months
- OCDE stocks are low
- non OCDE demand is much bigger
- the oil production controlled by the majors is much smaller

my instinct tell me that a shortfall in supply , either accidental or intentional , would see prices REALLY take off ,
Then forget about the global warming or sustainability ,
it would be the sad spectacle of an addict going cold turkey ,

Governments would be reduced to fumbling and begging for a few tanker loads ,
the smaller the country the worst the trampling underfoot in the rush to grovel to producers

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Graeme

Trees from 'energy forests' could solve future fuel needs

sparky · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 133

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The 2006 BP energy review put biomass at 4% of the world consumption ,that seems an understatement
That make it the fifth source of power in use ,
it also is the very first used since the dawn of mankind
it was displaced by coal , then oil but still is a major power source in third world country ,
straw and food processing by products are used as fuel
the sawmills and sugar mills in particular can run on their by-products ,
but it is a rare situation , usually the left over wood is much more valuable as wood chips or as material for particulate board

http://sres-associated.anu.edu.au/fpt/nwfp/woodres/woodres.html

Still , good luck but all of NZ forests would be burn to make up the energy needed to run the place ,

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Graeme

Report: Purpose Grown Energy Forests Could Meet All of New Zealand’s Transportation Fuel and Heat Energy Needs