Joined: Sep 03, 2005 Posts: 74 Location: Germany, State M-V
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
The above Foto is from the back of a booklet about building your own wind wheel/wind turbine from scrap material.
It also contains a seperate chapter about battery types, building the stand/frame, making the rotor, etc.
There are three other booklets about building wind wheels from using an old bike dynamo till constructing a wind wheel delivering up to 9kW of electrical power (the above booklet; depending on the wind force).
You can use the picture like you want, but you always have to add the name and the adress of the author (he gave me that instructions):
Christian Kuhtz
Hagebuttenstr. 23
24113 Kiel
Germany
The following is not meant as Commercial, but for getting help!
I'm getting no money in no form whatsoever for doing this.
You can order a lot of other booklets (only in german ;-/) of the same author/publisher about building stoves, small houses made of mud/brick, using the sun, etc. at
www.einfaelle-statt-abfaelle.de
I'm just beginning to read the booklets, so i can't give (till now) any explanations to the details of the construction like measures, weight, etc. But i hope in about three to four weeks i can say more to this type and to other examples.
A few days ago i disovered a description of a CD-ROM in the internet containing a lot of different simple wind wheels respectively a lot of patents about wind wheels, but i didn't find the site again till now.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2779 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
I'd much prefer a nuclear power plant or an ordinary 5 MW wind tubine to this medieval contraption. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 1178 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
A much better home built design is available through Hugh Piggot.
http://www.scoraigwind.com/
The folks at Forcefield (Otherpower.com) even have a kit using his concepts:
http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_30&products_id=188
One of the real advantages of these more modern designs is that they are direct drive, with an alternator built by the owner for the purpose of the wind generator, rather than a belt or chain or gear drive being used to drive an alternator or generator intended for other uses.
Joined: Sep 03, 2005 Posts: 74 Location: Germany, State M-V
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:25 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
@GreenOil08
"This isn't going to help any of us. Might as well use that money and spend it on fun, while you still can"
Every little bit helps. Perhaps you will have no problem in the coming years, but for sure you know people who will.
I spent several hours in scanning, translating, adapting the picture and posting it here at PO.com, by the way.
The advantage of wind, at least in the northern hemisphere is that in autumn and winter there is a lot of wind, while the sun is seldom seen. So wind wheels are a very good complimentary enhancement to solar cells.
You can load batteries with the current or you can transfer the electric power into heat power by heating up your heat storage tank or you can drive a heat pump which is more effective - up to a factor of 4 (depending of your heating system) in relation to pure electrical heating.
In the USA i think it is far more easy to build a wind mill at your house, in Germany there are more and more laws to prevent anything even if it would be good and helpfull.
@WisJim
Thank you for the links. I've read some threads in the last two weeks here at PO.com referring directly or indirectly (e.g. "Can wind mills be built without fossil fuels), but i never saw links like yours.
I was quite sure that there are a lot of good english books about this topic, but i never read about one here in this forum.
And i have to admit, that i till now never really looked very intensively after one.
Despite the fact that i am a engineer, i learned in this booklets that you can enhance a car dynamo (by rearranging the windings) so that it can produce power even at low wind speed respectively at low number of revolutions.
@Starvid
I think every tiny solution to lessen the energy problems is better than preparing for Third World War and that's what's going on right now.
I don't want to die to conserve the status quo of a few hundred people world wide.
Michael C. Ruppert said there's no more time left to be shy, so even if i make myself ridiculous, i feel good in spreading good news and possible solutions.
The other important problem besides energy is the problem of nutrition which is quite directly link to the question of energy:
A big part of the worldwide available food is only made possible because of huge areas of irrigation. At least in poor countrys this is usually always done by diesel-engine powered pumps.
Building and repairing streets (e.g. for transporting food) needs a lot of energy.
The problem of irrigating costs can also be solved by medieval methods (good for farmes e.g. in Australia) - and the people in the Medieval didn't live too bad, at least during the climate optimum :
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2779 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
And according to the proper terminology, I guess it would be World War IV. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Sep 03, 2005 Posts: 74 Location: Germany, State M-V
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Last year in Germany five of seventeen reactors were shutdown at the same time: Biblis A + B, Gundremmingen C, Brunsbuettel and Kruemmel (together about 5.000 MW).
Nevertheless nobody in Germany had to sit in the dark nor there were any restrictions to the use of electricity.
The summer was quite average (also average precipitation => enough electrical energy, and there was no excess use of AC.
France which had problems with his nuclear plants in the hot and dry summer 2006 is the owner of all river power plants along the Rhine and the german-french border from Basel (Switzerland) till almost to Karlsruhe (Germany). Therefore the part of renewable energy in total is almost 10% in France.
Last year the installed (peak) capacity of all wind turbines in Germany were about 22.000 MW ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power ).
And this was still the first place, but i'm quite sure that the USA this year will make itself the number one.
Alltogether they delivered more than 7% of the net demand of electrical energy consumption.
Last year 108 turbines were replaced with 45 new ones, eventhough the installed power went from 41 MW of the old ones to 103 MW (factor 2,5). The new ones represent only about 6% of all installed turbines
NeverthelessGermany has still important obstacles in delivering more electrical energy from its 22.000 wind turbines to the customers:
The biggest are called the big four energy companies (RWE, Vattenfall, EON and ENBW). They are regulating the transfer of power within their regime/reich. So it can happen by chance that there is too much power in one regime (e.g. caused by wind) and in a neighbouring regime there is too less power. But only God knows why then it is not possible to level the differences.
By the way: The big companies are also ruling (more or less) the so called power management in Germany.
If there is a lack of power in Germany, the companies can demand a higher price for each kilowatthour, no matter if the kilowatthour was produced for 4 Cents in an old nuclear plant or for 10-12 Cents in a gas powered plant which had to be started extra because of the lack.
Then there is the possibility to store power as heat or as cold in big plants (cold storage buildings, district heating) or also in small homes (freezer, refrigerator, heat pump, heat storage tank).
The technique therefore is alread invented and used since several decades (night storage heater = heated up (stones; up to 700°C) during the night with cheap current and giving the heat back during the day): The Kill switch or ripple control (controlled by radio signals). All the electrical installation to use this technique in every household is already installed in Germany since many years (an obligate standard for new houses) but nowadays almost nobody knows that (not even the installers; or is it a taboo?) , so it's only necessary to implement a little bit more electronic in freezers, refrigerators etc.
These storages could be used to avoid peak of electrical loads around midday (e.g. freezer are cooled down - one to two degrees more - half an hour or more before midday) and therefore leveling the demand.
In Germany it happened last year two times, that electrical power at the power stock exchange (EEX) in Leipzig, that power costed 0 (zero) Cents. There was unexpectedly too much power generated by the wind turbines, which happens very seldom because of the good weather predictions of at least one day) and it wasn't possible to shut down any more power plants in that short period of time.
Also last year or two years ago the price of an kilowatthour exceeded the allowance paid for owners of private PV-plants (then about 50 Cents per kWh).
With this it would be possible - at the same time - to raise the portion of renewable produced electricity, to lower the price of a kilowatthour (leveled load around midday), to unburden the net respectively to transfer more renewable produced power and to save or better replace fossil fuels.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2779 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Jupidu wrote:
I hope the answer is now sufficient?
No, actually not at all. I said nuclear reactors or full sized wind turbines were much better than this tiny little wind mill made out of scrap, which you answered by saying that conventional wind turbines are good. Well, that's what I said!
Furthermore you complain that nuclear reactors are offline at times. Fair enough, they are. But they still have the highest capacity factors of any kind of power plant, at about 90 %. Compared to 15-30 % for onshore wind.
And then you say the French had some reactors offline due to hot weather. Well, that has nothing to do with nuclear power and everything to do with any kind of power plant using the steam cycle. And you can easily solve the problem by using the sea as your heat sink or installing cooling towers.
So my point stands. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
PS. Germany, wind capital of the world, will build 24 new coal plants. That's what happens when you start dismantling nuclear power, no matter how much you focus on wind power. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Thanks for taking the time posting this info Jupidu.
I kinda like this design. Especially since e-bay seems to be fresh out of nuclear reactors. Sorry Starvid, I couldn't resist... I just got the impression Jupidu providing this as an idea for a home-brew power source after things got bad and getting power from one of the methods you mentioned wouldn't be possible. Kinda like "read this, get familiar with it and put it in your In Case of The End of the World file."
But that's just imo. Cheers, and great debate guys - good points.
Starvid wrote:
Jupidu wrote:
I hope the answer is now sufficient?
No, actually not at all. I said nuclear reactors or full sized wind turbines were much better than this tiny little wind mill made out of scrap, which you answered by saying that conventional wind turbines are good. Well, that's what I said!
Furthermore you complain that nuclear reactors are offline at times. Fair enough, they are. But they still have the highest capacity factors of any kind of power plant, at about 90 %. Compared to 15-30 % for onshore wind.
And then you say the French had some reactors offline due to hot weather. Well, that has nothing to do with nuclear power and everything to do with any kind of power plant using the steam cycle. And you can easily solve the problem by using the sea as your heat sink or installing cooling towers.
So my point stands. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
PS. Germany, wind capital of the world, will build 24 new coal plants. That's what happens when you start dismantling nuclear power, no matter how much you focus on wind power.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Starvid wrote:
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable. I think there are better designs out there, but you're assuming the grid will always supply power, when it may not. _________________ The shovel with a wheel - The Wovel.
http://wovel.com/
Joined: Mar 14, 2008 Posts: 43 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
JRP3 wrote:
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable. I think there are better designs out there, but you're assuming the grid will always supply power, when it may not.
Exactly. Here in The Netherlands we have had several cases of theft of copper wires from train tracks. Train tracks which are in use! If people are that desperate (or greedy, this isn't a 3rd world country by any stretch of the imagination), then what happens when peak copper really hits us? How long will a national network using thousands of tons of copper survive? I can shoot people who climb on my roof to steal wiring, but guarding tens (/hundreds?) of thousands of miles of powerlines is simply not feasible. _________________ Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that suffering reaches its supreme point.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2779 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
JRP3 wrote:
Starvid wrote:
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable.
Gee that really sounds like a credible threat. I think I'll go looking for WMD's in my neighbours basement instead. It's probably got a better risk-return ratio than this little machine has. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Mar 14, 2008 Posts: 43 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Starvid wrote:
JRP3 wrote:
Starvid wrote:
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable.
Gee that really sounds like a credible threat. I think I'll go looking for WMD's in my neighbours basement instead. It's probably got a better risk-return ratio than this little machine has.
You might want to read my earlier post. We already have had massive train problems because of the copper guide wires being stolen from live tracks. It's only a small step before this starts on power cables too. _________________ Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that suffering reaches its supreme point.
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
Starvid wrote:
JRP3 wrote:
Starvid wrote:
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable.
Gee that really sounds like a credible threat. I think I'll go looking for WMD's in my neighbours basement instead. It's probably got a better risk-return ratio than this little machine has.
WTF are you babbling about? The grid can go down for various reasons, including storm damage. There are also many places where the grid doesn't exist. Those are simple facts. _________________ The shovel with a wheel - The Wovel.
http://wovel.com/
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2779 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Re: An exploded drawing of a bigger self-made wind-wheel
JRP3 wrote:
Starvid wrote:
JRP3 wrote:
Starvid wrote:
Yeah yeah, but you still didn't answer my criticism. Everything that thing can do, an ordinary wind turbine or a nuclear power plant can do better.
This can be built using scrounged materials and provide power when the grid is no longer viable.
Gee that really sounds like a credible threat. I think I'll go looking for WMD's in my neighbours basement instead. It's probably got a better risk-return ratio than this little machine has.
WTF are you babbling about? The grid can go down for various reasons, including storm damage. There are also many places where the grid doesn't exist. Those are simple facts.
It's hardly profitable in any way to build one of those wind machines to protect yourself against storm damage. We have that several times a year (well, not in the cities obviously, but on the countryside) and the power is usually back within a few days, a week at worst. Nothing to worry about. Those that really need power have something far cheaper than wind mills, diesel backup generators.
Where the grid doesn't exist, an intermittent wind mill seems like a really bad idea.
And if you for some reason reall really need a micro wind turbine, just order one from one of the manufacturers. It will be cheaper, easier and far more reliable. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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