The article states the idea has been grounded for now *no pun intended*
However as oil rises I think the idea will be revisited. You can thank $100 oil for these cost cutting measures now in place:
1) no pillows
2) no peanuts
3) electronic tickets (saves $ on paper)
I just can't wait to see the cost-cutting ideas they'll come up with once oil hits $300
Looking at the current fiasco in the banking industry, society has shown a willingness to use tax money to bail out big business. Because of this, I think we'll still have an airline industry post PO...up until society completely collapses.
my 2 air miles
////
Ironically speaking you'll notice that high fuel costs are making the airplanes bigger NOT smaller. Large airplanes are more fuel efficient per passenger. It's more energy efficient to fly 1 large airplane between point A and B rather then 2 smaller airplanes. This is less convenient for consumers because there's less choice as to when to fly. However consumers have already voted with their wallet: price NOT convenience is the primary variable.
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
I am certainly looking forward to fly business class again without putting up with crowded airports, connecting flights, hoards of tourists and those flying on cheap tickets. Without daily flights leaving every hour on the hour I might even be able to stay at my destination for few days, get to know my customers better and see where it is that I am visiting. Heaven! ; - ) _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 1985 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
steam_cannon wrote:
cube wrote:
I just can't wait to see the cost-cutting ideas they'll come up with once
oil hits $300
Only first class gets a toilet...
Yeah. Probably charge $5 for a square of bung wipe, too. Course you can always rip up your copy of Conde Nast Traveler.
Thought the peanut ban was due to hypo-allergic passengers? Or they figured terrorists could use them with improvised slingshots... _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
"I'm here to tell you that life as you knew it has ended."
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
In Europe we have trains, but don't expect them to be comfy. They're expensive (at least in Germany) late and you may stand for two hours. But this is not because trains are bad it's because of the privatisation.
Anyway I am very happy that this short distance flights have an end
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
I am surprised that my compnay, currently suffering financially, like many others, still has so many head office folks flying around the country. These are mostly internal, not customer visits.
So much that oculd be done with a conference call or a net meeting. They do not create an aura of austerity, the actions do not match the words.
I think the worst thing that has hit coporate expense budgets has been air travel points. Its created an incentive for all kinds of people to manufacture rationale for business fights.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
I've never ridden on a regional jet (50 seat) before. Maybe I should put that on my list of things to do sometime within a few years or I'll NEVER get a chance to do it...........if you know what I mean.
Does anyone have the breakdown of air travel types?
For example what percentage of air travel is:
1) regional
2) domestic
3) international
4) "trunk line"
My gut tells me regional probably makes up a small fraction. I assume in this case "regional" does not necessarily mean short distance, but instead small jet + short distance.
This is an important distinction. Some of the most profitable routes are the short distance but heavily traveled routes using large planes. These are called "trunk lines" and it's basically the cash cow of the airline business. It's the profitability of these trunk lines that subsidizes the losses of the other routes.
world's busiest air travel routes
Tokyo <---> Sapporo.....500 miles (measured by passengers)
Madrid <---> Barcelona.....300 miles (measure by number of flights)
Not surprisingly there are plans to build high speed rail links at these routes.
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1167 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
alokin wrote:
In Europe we have trains, but don't expect them to be comfy. They're expensive (at least in Germany) late and you may stand for two hours. But this is not because trains are bad it's because of the privatisation.
Holy words, alokin. When railroads and trains here were state-owned, they were not fancy but everything was working well. Now they're privatized, and people travel in dirt and always late.
Ah, the wonders of free market!!! _________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
Barbara wrote:
alokin wrote:
In Europe we have trains, but don't expect them to be comfy. They're expensive (at least in Germany) late and you may stand for two hours. But this is not because trains are bad it's because of the privatisation.
Holy words, alokin. When railroads and trains here were state-owned, they were not fancy but everything was working well. Now they're privatized, and people travel in dirt and always late.
Ah, the wonders of free market!!!
Where are you people getting your information from? Deutche Bahn is not privatized. Any lateness this year has been due 90% to public sector union strikes. The other 10% has been due to weather.
I cannot think of a better railway in the world than Germany? Comfortable and efficient. Cheaper than driving. Connected to the S-bahn, U-bahn, strassen bahn, airports and busses. Connected to its neighbors in one seamless transfer. Their rolling stock is world class. If some regional Bahns are dirty or have graffiti then keep in mind who exactly is making that mess. The passengers.
Parts of Deustche Bahn will be privatized like Deutsche Post and Deutsche Telecom, but the tracks will stay in public hands. If anything its the public sector unions that may disrupt DBs privatization. For that reason as an investor I may avoid it. Deutsche Telekom has certainly been a lousy investment since it was privatized, mostly because managment paid too much for worthless 3G licenses. Deutsche Post went much smoother. Although there has been recent corruption allegations surrounding Post Bank, but that was unrelated to the privatization.
Gosh, it would be nice if our European friends could at least post accurate information about Germany and Europe, so that those that are not familiar with the local issues do not walk away confused! Anything under 4-5 hours and I will not fly. The train is more comfortable and more convenient with city to city center direct access. And better for getting some work done or just relaxing, having a beer and a bite to eat. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
emersonbiggins wrote:
I'm looking forward to it!
The next regional "jet":
It's a pity there're so many grave stones along the route. You'd think those Kansans would learn how to jump out of the way. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah shit
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 1985 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
MrBill wrote:
Where are you people getting your information from? Deutche Bahn is not privatized. Any lateness this year has been due 90% to public sector union strikes. The other 10% has been due to weather.
Wiki says they're a public limited company; that page is actually for "Aktiengesellschaft."
Quote:
Gosh, it would be nice if our European friends could at least post accurate information about Germany and Europe, so that those that are not familiar with the local issues do not walk away confused! Anything under 4-5 hours and I will not fly. The train is more comfortable and more convenient with city to city center direct access. And better for getting some work done or just relaxing, having a beer and a bite to eat.
Vs.
Germany's slightly smaller than Montana. Viva expanded passenger rail!
Love that Soviet rocket train, too! Reminds me of Verne's cannon powered spaceship.
_________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
"I'm here to tell you that life as you knew it has ended."
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 1985 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
DP - quoted myself in toto for some reason... _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
"I'm here to tell you that life as you knew it has ended."
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
MrBill wrote:
I cannot think of a better railway in the world than Germany?
There's a famous or perhaps more appropriately "infamous" example where a station manager in Japan committed suicide because he was so upset that his trains arrived late.
The Germans are known for their efficiency but even they can't beat that, so I guess that puts them in 2nd place........MrBill you know I enjoy giving you a hard time right!
///
add on:
There are several reasons why Japan deserves the title of the "best" railway system in the world.
1) Japan is a mountainous country so there are trains running through tunnels, bridges, elevated guide ways, underground, and not just at ground level. It's a civil engineering marvel.
2) ON TIME - nobody does it like the Japanese.
3) headway time - The French get credit for the fastest train in the world but can they run their trains at 300 km/hr with only 5 minutes of distance between each train? ha ha
4) capacity - highest-capacity high speed rail trainset in the world , E4 Series Shinkansen. imagine a double deck 16 car train, 1,634 passengers.
5) very extensive coverage
6) The Japanese do NOT go on strike every year unlike the French
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
TheDude wrote:
Quote:
Wiki says they're a public limited company; that page is actually for "Aktiengesellschaft."
DeutscheBahn AG is like a public crown corporation in that it is run as a business for profit, but at the moment its shareholder is the German government. Parts of DB AG will be privatized in the future like some of its real estate, but the government will keep control over the rails and some stations. So it will be split into an operating company and a holding company.
I am not convinced this is the best solution? It has not worked well in the UK so far. But like many privatizations they are half-hearted affairs, so the commercial logic usually gets buried under political interference. Then when it does not work optimally the privatization process is blamed. Of course, the reason governments privatize in the first place is usually that they do not have the ability to raise taxes to cover the necessary capital spending and upgrades and/or cannot afford to continue to subsidize ongoing operating losses.
cube wrote:
Quote:
There are several reasons why Japan deserves the title of the "best" railway system in the world.
1) Japan is a mountainous country so there are trains running through tunnels, bridges, elevated guide ways, underground, and not just at ground level. It's a civil engineering marvel.
2) ON TIME - nobody does it like the Japanese.
3) headway time - The French get credit for the fastest train in the world but can they run their trains at 300 km/hr with only 5 minutes of distance between each train? ha ha
4) capacity - highest-capacity high speed rail trainset in the world , E4 Series Shinkansen. imagine a double deck 16 car train, 1,634 passengers.
5) very extensive coverage
6) The Japanese do NOT go on strike every year unlike the French
There has to be a reason why Japan's public debt is 158% of GDP, right? ; - )) I cannot comment on the quality of Japan's rail system because I have never been there. Maybe this year? However, Germany's does connect seamlessly to its neighbors (CZ, FR, AU, CH, Benelux) and now there are high speed trains between Munich and Berlin to Paris as well. So technically you can take a high speed train right from Bavaria to downtown London.
Germany being a relatively small, densely populated country helps, but European wide the distances are quite a bit greater, and the economics still work quite well. Discount airlines give the illusion that they are cheaper and therefore more economical, but they barely cover their fuel costs and are often a sap to regional development, so their landing fees and fixed costs are subsidized by other full fare paying airlines.This is just my own opinion. Of course, there are profitable airlines and airports, but they are in the minority and overall the industry suffers from chronic financial problems.
There is a huge push to get trucks off the road and onto rail. Especially through the Alps. Even passenger cars onto rail for long-distances like between Germany and Spain (1500 kms). DB Autozug That's good the environment now and good post peak oil decline later. There is no doubt that rail is the answer in my opinion. Its just too bad that so much public spending has been wasted on autobahns and hub and spoke airports already. Wasting assets going forward.
_________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete
MrBill wrote:
I remember reading some "financial" article that sated if investors had any common sense they would of taken a gun and shot down the first airplane the Wright Brothers flew and that would of saved themselves 100 years of financial misery. Considering it was a "financial" article it contained and unusually large amount of truth.
After reading 3 articles about the "cause" of the current world rice fiasco, not 1 article care to even "suggest" that maybe this planet wasn't meant to hold 6.6 billion people. Every article kept on going on and on about how government should of (subsidize, anticipated, and managed) the situation better. I had to stop reading or end up pulling my hair out of frustration.
As for railroads it will definitely play a larger role in the future:
I think the coming economical difficulties will do more to take cars off the road and promote public transit then all the campaigning that environmentalists have ever done.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah shit 
