THE Kyoto Protocol Thread (merged)

Plantagenet

Its not surprising that the Chinese and their supporters think its only "fair" that their CO2 production shouldn't be restricted. Only the other guys' CO2 should be restricted.

The same mentality exists in the EU.

EU says it will reduce CO2, Germany and other EU countries want exceptions for their own CO2 pollution

CO2 pollution of the atmosphere is a classic case of the "Tragedy of the Commons"....the world's atmosphere is a common property of all, and the costs of any country's pollution that goes up there gets dispersed across the whole planet. Cool

Ludi

I still think it would be possible for the EU and the US to be examples for the rest of the world - if we were actually willing to do it, which we aren't, apparently.

There are things we could do, but, there's no indication we'll do them.
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Zythryn · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 11, 2007 Posts: 24

The subject wording is simply false.
Kyoto has lead to some countries lowering their CO2 output by a certain amount. Simply for sake of discussion lets say 1 Gt of CO2/year.
If that reduction had not been made, China still would be increasing their CO2 output, so we would, as a planet, be producing 1Gt more of CO2 than we currently are.

Granted, it is bad news that non-signers of the treaty are increasing their CO2 by so much and bad news that the countries that did sign have not reached their goals. However, it certainly doesn't mean that the GOAL was bad.

Plantagenet

Concerned · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Sep 23, 2004 Posts: 1500

americandream

americandream

Plantagenet

Plantagenet

Plantagenet

The European Union's greenhouse gas emissions from certain key industries rose 1.1% last year despite EU commitments under the Kyoto and other EU anti-pollution policies, demonstrating the difficulty in meeting international commitments to fight climate change.

Carbon dioxide emissions reached 1.914 billion metric tons last year in the sectors covered by Europe's Emission Trading Scheme, according to an analysis of data by Oslo-based Point Carbon, a carbon market research and consulting firm.

For the past three years Europe has been trying to reduce emissions.... supposed to provide European countries a way to meet their commitments to the Kyoto Protocol, the United Nations accord that set emissions-cutting targets for the 175 nations that ratified it for the period between this year and 2012.

Some 11,500 factories, oil refineries, steel mills, and other installations are covered by the EU scheme, accounting for about half of Europe's total emissions. There is still no limit on the other half, produced by everything from cars and planes to buildings and retail outlets.

---the WSJ

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So the EU nations are failing to live up to their Kyoto commitments, even after they subverted the system by leaving out half their total emissions from rapidly growing CO2 sources like cars, planes, etc.

Kyoto was just a fraud---the EU countries have been lying about keeping their commitments to Kyoto.

Its time for a new carbon treaty with some teeth in it.

cipi604

[quote="Plantagenet"] There is still no limit on the other half, produced by everything from cars and planes to buildings and retail outlets.
Oil depletion = the limit.
Why not run faster the last 100 meters?!

Plantagenet

Blacksmith

The Kyoto Treaty was sign by politicians who knew they would be out of office and retired before there were any consequences. The US, China and India were the only rational players.
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Serial_Worrier · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 05, 2008 Posts: 233

Hypocrites the Euro-weenies are, no? Apparently Kyoto was designed to hamstring the US only, because we generally obey treaties we sign. They tried to play on our good, honest nature. Remember Europe is evil.