Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
"pay your morgage" why? why pay any bills? If you really believe that this is going to happen you would be much better off spending the money on supplies. right? with packs of roving lunitics about and society in a free fall it's always best to have your cable bill paid up.
You should be about 1 million dollors in debt when it hits the fan....slide away to your hidedy spot and lay low.
get a 223 rifle
12 ga pistol grip
9mm
don't let anyone see them unless you are going to shoot them.
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 117 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
Some more rules which seem obvious to me:
1. There's not enough to go around. There are too much people roaming this earth. Keep that in mind, always.
2. Humans can be violent and deceitful. If history teaches us one thing it's that people will fight, 'till death. The world is not a pretty place.
3. Reliance means weakness. If you rely on something or somebody which can't be trusted, you're in trouble.
But above all: enjoy it will it lasts. Please have some fun, some good ole' consumerism-fun like shopping, boozing, driving etc. Unless you don't like those things, in which case you should do something else. _________________ The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.
Joined: Dec 30, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Im not f#%king interested
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
Really great ideas everyone thanks.
I've started basic preps like food storage, relocated to the country and all im buying at the moment is food and booze lol.
The one thing im lagging in is range weapons. I'v hand to hand fighting covered like machetes, spears, knifes, shields and axes. Luckly in Australia gun laws are pretty tight so im hoping when the SHTF guns wont be so prevelant as in the USA.
Also i think USA is a great indicator for the kind of time frame we're looking at in other countries.
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
Dry wrote:
"You should be about 1 million dollors in debt when it hits the fan....slide away to your hidedy spot and lay low.
Crikey, I'm about 993,521.00 dollars short of that goal, how do I catch up?
Good call on machete's and spears etc...we have guns and rifles coming out the hoo haw but no hand to hand stuff, really. However, if they are that close I guess I can bust open some heads with my cast iron pots & pans. I really prefer that my preps serve a dual purpose anyway. _________________ ...the rest of you just beat your useless gums at the moon like jimson weed goats. - efarmer
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6345 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
Ang wrote:
Dry wrote:
"You should be about 1 million dollors in debt when it hits the fan....slide away to your hidedy spot and lay low.
Crikey, I'm about 993,521.00 dollars short of that goal, how do I catch up?
Good call on machete's and spears etc...we have guns and rifles coming out the hoo haw but no hand to hand stuff, really. However, if they are that close I guess I can bust open some heads with my cast iron pots & pans. I really prefer that my preps serve a dual purpose anyway.
Great post Ang!
You are my kind! _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
Aww shucks, thanks Pops!
(I think I'm blushing !!) _________________ ...the rest of you just beat your useless gums at the moon like jimson weed goats. - efarmer
Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation
wisconsin_cur wrote:
This ol' dog tries to put his principles in positive language.
Cur's Investment for Peak Oil:
1. Invest in infrastructure These are the durable goods other posters have talked about. A wood stove, good hand tools, food safe containers, insulated curtains, fruit trees and bushes. Whatever might be needed to live without the modern industrial complex.
2. Invest in knowledge Learn to save seeds, transfer an engine to run on alcohol, how to distill alcohol, reload ammo or whatever you think will be the needed skills to utilyze that infrastructure. If you can produce something that would be trade-able that is great also. Included in this principle is the purchase of some general homesteading books. We do not know what we will need to know so some reference to help with future problem solving (topics from geometry to field surgery to building snares) are invaluable.
3. Invest in freedom. This is the "get out of debt principle." What binds you to the system. If you do not want to go down with it you have to be able to cut yourself free as it sinks. This includes every thing that would keep you from "hitting the ground" if things blow up in our face.
4. Invest in security. For some this will be an arsenal, for others it will community building. Yet it also includes taking a lower paying but recession resistant job. I want to be able to ride the wave as long as possible.
In the real world I need to balance these. It would be great were I financially able to implement them all perfectly... if the peak holds off long enough perhaps I will. I use these principles to weigh each decision. Right now investing in infrastructure takes priority next will be the investment in freedom.
works for me.
These are good starting points. But, you need to be able to protect your assets, especially food. This doesn't necessarily mean stand and fight. You must chose wisely in the Flight or Fight scenario. With proper planning (and good camoflage) you may remove your need to fight. Fighting once increases your chances of getting you and your family killed. Multiple fights almost guarantees it.
I guess what I'm saying is "don't put your eggs in one basket". Have some that gets 'taken' to protect most of it that don't. Also, have multiple fall back points. Remember, the name of the game is to survive until the majority is gone. Roving bands will eventually die out too.
Once the anarchy stage dies down, then you will need to find a good community of survivors. Long term survival will need community.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
It's quite funny how you think that there will be a community!?!? for long term survival. Hahahahaha. That's good. Really good.
There is NO long term survival. Lets face some facts here. If science tells us anything and History, you'll quickly see that we're all doomed. Think about it for a sec. Noone is going to ever give up and live in the "farm age" It'll never happen. Period.
Due to the Energy wars that will without a doubt ensue shrotly after the peak is really felt. Which we will feel it next year for sure.
Then it's simple, really. As these wars are raging on and on. At one point one country will say "I'll show these guys" and launch about half a dozen nukes.......mmmmmmcan you just smell it! Then the other country in defense will launch about half a dozen if not more than that. And BAM you've got a nuclear winter. A man made Ice age, where the "farm age" falls down. Face it folks, no one is going to survive long term. It will be the end of mankind. Mark my words.
Also if the nukes don't get us, we've got a nice big asteriod heading straight for us.....coming in 2039.
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
GreenOil08 wrote:
Due to the Energy wars that will without a doubt ensue shrotly after the peak is really felt.
This is a distinct possibility, but not written in stone. With someone like Bush in the whitehouse, it might be, but with a new administration, someone with some actual diplomatic skills, maybe there can be a fresh start to international relations, even if it means holding our noses and making nice with heretofore pariah states.
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation
truecougarblue wrote:
I'm west of the rockies so mine vary some, but I agree with Pops for the most part. It seems his idea in general is to hide in plain sight and live today like he would have lived before the jet age.
#1 Secure a water source.
#2 Store a years supply of food and antibiotics.
#3 Maintain first aid training
#4 Garden (verb)
#5 Join your local police reserve, or search and rescue group.
I agree with the first four rules, #5 is BS, screw the cops in a post crash they will be the new SS, they can all rot in h***
Joined: Aug 07, 2005 Posts: 301 Location: Columbia, MO
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
I don't really have any rules to add that haven't been already covered.
To the poster that wanted tp get bariatric surgery - DON'T. This procedure will leave you dependent on vitamin supplements, which may be hard to get in imes ahead. Same with any other procedure that will leave you dependent on modern medicine. Actually, being fat may be of use in a famine - you'll have a lot of stored energy, and as you lose weight you will be stronger.
Another thought is about a SO. If you haven't found someone before a crash, forget the idea during and after one. New interest from a member of the opposte sex (or same, if you're gay) must always be viewed suspiciously. It is too easy to be manipulated in that fashion, and all of your preps stolen after the "SO" shoots you (with your own gun) in your sleep. Trust is something to build before the crash.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3865 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
dooberheim wrote:
Another thought is about a SO. If you haven't found someone before a crash, forget the idea during and after one. New interest from a member of the opposte sex (or same, if you're gay) must always be viewed suspiciously. It is too easy to be manipulated in that fashion, and all of your preps stolen after the "SO" shoots you (with your own gun) in your sleep. Trust is something to build before the crash.
That reminds me of that episode of "Happy Days" where the Cunninghams were going to build a bomb shelter and this pretty girl all the sudden wanted to date Richie. Well, Howard decided not to build the bomb shelter and the pretty girl decided she didn't want to go out with Richie any more.
This thread has taken a turn for the worse. What happened to the five rules? I did mine a couple of pages back, but this last page looks like the text-logs from "To Catch A Doomer." _________________
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 517 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
OK. You have your fortified retreat, your guns, your bullets, your food supplies, your water system, your crank flashlights, your outhouse, a garden in the backyard, an orchard growing in the southern quarter, your fences are up (including the rolls of barbed wire and the signs that tell trespassers how gruesomely they might expect to die). Now what?
Did you forget entertainment? Besides sex and violence, I mean.
Have on hand a supply of books. These come in several types.
1. Interesting technical books that make you feel uplifted and important, assuming you can comprehend the equations.
2. How-To-Do-It-Dummy books that show you how to do things which are useful in survival situations and in low-tech cultures.
3. Historical books that detail how human cultures were led, largely with lies, stupidity and cowardice, and especially during the Era of Petroleum-Fueled Exuberance.
4. Fun fictional novels. Romance (for your girlfriend to get in the mood and stay there). Science fiction for you. Fantasy for you both.
I'd keep the books in the first category to a minimum, unless you can imagine why your children and grandchildren will need to be able to solve the equations of stellar structure for Sirius. These books are primarily to gratify your sense of nostalgia and give you feelings of enjoyment in return for all the money you spent on the wrong education.
The books in the 2nd category will be useful to every generation of your folk, though in time they will become heavily augmented, if not replaced, by practical traditions for farming, animal husbandry, carpentry, brickmaking, building with stone, medicine, having babies, raising children, roofing, trapping/hunting, spying on possible enemies, making and using weapons, war strategy, etc. But in the beginning, everybody will be people who were accustomed to letting institutions and experts do all the thinking and will, therefore, be ignorant and in need of reference material.
In the 3rd category, I could suggest proper historical material, but you wouldn't listen to me. So just pick books that have slants agreeable to you. Enough said.
As to the 4th category, here are my suggestions.
4a. A Song of Ice and Fire. This is a series in progress, with four very lengthy novels and a prequel so far completed, by George R.R. Martin. It's the best fantasy tale I've ever read.
4b. Lyonesse. A trilogy by Jack Vance. It's the next best fantasy tale that I've ever read.
4c. Deverry. A series in progress, by Katharine Kerr, with 14 novels of quite respectable length so far completed.
4d. Farseer. A trilogy by Robin Hobb. It is followed by a pair of sequel trilogies, which you might also want to procure: nine large volumes in all.
4e. Earth's Children. A speculative history fantasy series about people living during the last Ice Age, about 25000 years ago, by Jean M. Auel. The predominant religion seems to be about nature and fertility, so there are quite a few graphic sex scenes scattered through most of the books.
4f. Riftwar Saga, as well as subsequent/related series, by Raymond E. Feist. Swashbuckling adventure fantasy of very good quality.
4g. These books by Robert Heinlein: The Rolling Stones, Methuselah's Children, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Time Enough For Love, Starship Troopers, The Number of the Beast, The Cat Who Walked through Walls, To Sail Beyond the Sunset.
4h. Darwath, a series by Barbara Hambly. Semi-horror fantasy about what can happen if invading monsters aren't stopped soon enough.
4i. Dune, a series by Frank Herbert, involving a harsh desert environment, limited resources, and religious fanaticism.
4j. Battlefield Earth, by L. Ron Hubbard. A very lengthy book about a hero who leads his people in war against an alien occupation, and then saves the world again from a gang of galactic bankers!
4k. The Wheel of Time, by Robert Jordan. Great fantasy with lots of political intrigue. Eleven very long books and a medium sized prequel have been published. The author died before issuing the final volume, but this is now being written (from Jordan's notes) by another able storywriter and should be published soon.
4l. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien, the man who began the return of high fantasy in modern times. He's a master of magical atmosphere, the kind where a rumble of thunder in the distance has a profound philosophical meaning that you can just barely sense (but can't quite understand).
4m. The Saga of Recluce, by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. The usual form of this 13 (going on 15) volume series is "young boy goes out into the world and makes something of himself," and, by the way, there are powerful people who want to kill him and probably would have if it hadn't been for the warning and/or help of his brave girlfriend.
4n. Mars, a trilogy about interplanetary colonization by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's a pastoral tale about what mankind might have done if he had more correctly invested the terrestrial supply of fossil fuels. Consider it an alternative history, a might-have-been, to teach your youngsters how dangerous it is to let fools (like our leaders in the real world) have power.
4o. FORGOTTEN REALMS is a universe containing several different series, the best of which are by Ed Greenwood (Elminster), R.A. Salvatore (Drizzt do'Urden), and Elaine Cunningham. Mostly easy reading, but there are some moral lessons to be found.
4p. These books by Clifford D. Simak: The Goblin Reservation, Project Pope. Most of his other books are also excellent, but these two will give you the flavor.
4q. Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, a series by Tad Williams comprised of four volumes, the first two being of moderate length, the other two considerably longer.
I'm presently on a tour of modern fantasy literature. Or, rather, I will return to that tour after I've finished William R. Catton's OVERSHOOT, the Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change. So if I think about it, I might return to this post and lengthen it some. There are many series that I suspect are also quite good, but I haven't had time to read them yet.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: [Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.
1 The Money. This means giving up things, getting a handle on the bills, wiping out debt. Cut expenses until it hurts, then cut some more. Retrospect in a depression will show you there were lots of things you could have given up. Without debt comes freedom and the ability to enhance your position. I've been rich and I've been poor. It is better to be rich.
2 The Tools. Be it a saw, a frying pan, or the knowledge to make bread. Tools which function by buman power, have no moving parts, and can be repaired using what is available are best. Tools, with skills falling under the category, offer a survival advantage.
3 The People. Friends, neighbors relatives, coworkers. Develop the group. Be sure they know what you can do, find out what they can do. An important reminder, don't open your mouth about what you have. When the crap goes down, those peole will be all you have.
4 Location, Location, Location. Get out of the city. A small community of self reliant individuals and families is the goal. Consider climate and future climate. Avoid the beach, rivers leading to/from large cities, major roads and highways, and military installations.
5 The Resources. Clean water, clean air, good earth, trees, pasture, even rocks. Identify what you have to work with. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
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