Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
$4.49 a gallon is about 7.12 SEK per liter. Diesel is 12.99 SEK around here. That's $8.20 a gallon folks. Buisness as usual, though there has been some complaining about prices lately. Nothing special though, people always compain about fuel prices. You people still have a long way to go, $4.49 is cheap.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3482 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Pholostan wrote:
$4.49 a gallon is about 7.12 SEK per liter. Diesel is 12.99 SEK around here. That's $8.20 a gallon folks. Buisness as usual, though there has been some complaining about prices lately. Nothing special though, people always compain about fuel prices. You people still have a long way to go, $4.49 is cheap.
No it's not, we don't get "free" medical coverage over here.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4168 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Diesel actually dropped here...4.05 now.
At least over in Sweden you aren't penalized for using less, or being born to the wrong family or the wrong color. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5203 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Like I said before, there has been a worldwide diesel shortage this year. The Economist does a very good job of explaining why:
Quote:
Diesel’s second coming
Apr 4th 2008
From Economist.com
Fact is, there’s a global shortage of the stuff. That’s why, shorn of tax breaks, diesel costs so much more than petrol. Over the past year, the average price of diesel in America has risen by 117%—twice as fast as petrol. While both carry the same taxes in America, diesel now costs 60 to 70 cents a gallon more than regular gas.
With spring in the air, factories, office, stores and homes in the chillier northern half of America will have started to turn down their oil-fired heating systems. Meanwhile, farmers and truckers (big users both of diesel fuel) are in the midst of their slackest season of the year. Couple that with an economy that’s lurching towards recession, and you would be excused for thinking the price of diesel—which comes from the same part of the barrel as heating oil—would now be falling.
Actually, if anything, it’s continuing to rise. That’s because of the burgeoning demand from Europe, China and India.
It doesn’t help that the catalytic crackers used by oil refineries in America are optimised to produce as much petrol as possible—typically about 50% of every barrel. Diesel accounts for only 15% of the rest, with the balance used to produce heating oil, jet fuel, heavy fuel, liquid petroleum gas, asphalt and other products.
Refineries in Europe and elsewhere tend to use hydrocrackers that produce 25% petrol and 25% diesel. They would like to produce more diesel than they currently do, but that would mean producing even more petrol than they need. At present, they export their surplus to America.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5203 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Diesel hit new records in the wholesale market today as a major European refiner was hit by a fire. It take through the end of May to repair.
About 200,000 barrels per day of refined products will be lost.
Quote:
The maintenance shutdown at PL 4 at Porvoo will continue through may
ESPOO, FINLAND--(Marketwire - April 7, 2008) -
The fire that took place at Neste Oil's production line 4 at the Porvoo refinery on Friday 4 April will delay the completion of the line's maintenance shutdown through May. The line, which was commissioned in summer 2007 and concentrates on diesel production, had just been prepared for a planned partial maintenance shutdown prior to the fire. This work was due to take place in April. Lost production resulting from the extended shutdown and the repair costs are expected to total approximately 40 million euros.
The fire was the result of a leakage in a heat exchanger and lasted some 50 minutes. The fire damaged cabling and the table-top of the line's distillation column.
Scheduled maintenance work on other units at the Porvoo refinery will also take place during April. Neste Oil's petroleum product deliveries will not be affected by maintenance work.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5203 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Average US price for diesel is now over $4. Not mentioned in the article below is the fact that South America and Europe are now bidding for diesel supplies in the US today, for export, even as new price records in the US are set daily.
Quote:
Gas Prices Slip, but Could Hit $4
By JOHN WILEN – 1 hour ago
High oil prices have also sent diesel prices higher. Diesel's national average price rose 1.3 cents to $4.02 a gallon on Tuesday, AAA said, within 2 cents of last month's record.
"We'll set a new record this week — probably in the $4.05 to $4.10 a gallon neighborhood," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service in Wall, N.J.
Diesel fuel is used to transport most of the world's food, industrial and consumer products, and is one of the reason food prices have risen so sharply this year.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3278 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Gosh this makes me miss the old days when Globalization was an abstract concept and tariff nationalism was commonplace. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Feb 02, 2006 Posts: 284 Location: Denver, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Any speculation on the long term trend of diesel vs. unleaded? I'm starting to think that buying a new VW TDI might not be such a great idea.
Can the refiners easily switch production from one fuel to another? I think Pup mentioned once that the answer is "no".
Screw it - I'm just gonna my drive my cars into the ground and then ride my bike. _________________ "It is certain that free societies would have no easy time in a future dark age. The rapid return to universal penury will be accomplished by violence and cruelties of a kind now forgotten." - Roberto Vacca, The Coming Dark Age
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5203 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Mechler wrote:
Any speculation on the long term trend of diesel vs. unleaded? I'm starting to think that buying a new VW TDI might not be such a great idea.
Can the refiners easily switch production from one fuel to another? I think Pup mentioned once that the answer is "no".
Screw it - I'm just gonna my drive my cars into the ground and then ride my bike.
US refiners are highly optimized for gasoline, Europe is much the opposite. While I am no expert on refinery changeovers, it is not easy to switch from diesel to gasoline or visa versa. I suspect some of the extended refinery maintenence in the US this year may be because they underestimated diesel demand, and they are trying to adapt.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4168 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Same here. I thought of going for a TDI, but then have heard horror stories about other VW's and my MIL newer Passat is a POS. I really don't like how they put together cars. When it comes down to it, i'd much rather work on a Ford Ranger or Escort--and the parts are cheap.
I plan on picking up another vehicle and keeping both until i can see through the floor boards. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Feb 02, 2006 Posts: 284 Location: Denver, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.
Well, Frank, I'm worried about VW reliability as well. But Honda is supposed to have some diesel models soon. And Subaru is releasing a diesel this month in Europe - should be in the US in two years. I bet a diesel Outback would be pretty popular in WI and CO.
To bring this back on topic - if more automakers are planning on introducing diesels, the refiners may want to plan for that. Although, I'm sure that the added demand from that segment is relatively small. But I bet the majority of the cars being sold everywhere else in the world are diesels. Which goes back to DP's point about exporting are way into a shortage.
You think if it becomes bad enough (high prices, yet we're still exporting) that the gov't will step in and regulate the refiners somehow? _________________ "It is certain that free societies would have no easy time in a future dark age. The rapid return to universal penury will be accomplished by violence and cruelties of a kind now forgotten." - Roberto Vacca, The Coming Dark Age
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