Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 2 airlines - Champion, Aloha
If some airlines have taken out CDS's for hedging against high oil prices will this mean that the financial sector will absorb some of the losses? If there has been significant hedging this again may feed into other problems being experianced by hedge funds and investment banks.
I know some European airline have taken out hedging (Ryanair has not and is suffering).
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2464 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 2 airlines - Champion, Aloha
Tanada wrote:
So AP do you think the US Government will subsidize air travle via fuel rebates or direct subsidies like European carrier receive, or some combination? Or will it be something novel to the US market?
I think its possible it may be something novel, but I've been thinking "Amtrak of the skies" ultimately.
You cant let a major portion of the industry fail, its tied too tightly to the economies performance. Probably will start off with some form of tax related breaks then move to Euro-like subsidies.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4333 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 2 airlines - Champion, Aloha
AirlinePilot wrote:
Tanada wrote:
So AP do you think the US Government will subsidize air travle via fuel rebates or direct subsidies like European carrier receive, or some combination? Or will it be something novel to the US market?
I think its possible it may be something novel, but I've been thinking "Amtrak of the skies" ultimately.
You cant let a major portion of the industry fail, its tied too tightly to the economies performance. Probably will start off with some form of tax related breaks then move to Euro-like subsidies.
Don't you fell guilty (being responsible) for burning all that oil!
This is the type of mid-major airline bust I'm looking for. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 2 airlines - Champion, Aloha
emersonbiggins wrote:
This is the type of mid-major airline bust I'm looking for.
*sticks head inside room*
Where's all the naysayers now?
I vividly remember not too long ago all the PO-debunker's loudly proclaiming: "Hey, oil has increased all this time and the airline industry seems to be adapting."
Where here it is. The airlines are "adapting" by going out of business.
PO-doomers --> score 1 point
PO-naysayers --> 0 points
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4415 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
I could see some national airline at some point coming to be. This country every day is turning more and more in to the old Soviet Union. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4415 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
Sun Country is cutting jobs this summer:
Quote:
Will Idle Almost 30 Percent Of Workforce Over Summer
On Thursday, Minnesota-based low-cost carrier Sun Country Airlines announced plans to furlough nearly 30 percent of its pilots, effective May 1.
Airline executives are calling it a temporary move... but given that already this week we've seen closure announcements from Aloha Airlines, Champion Air, and now ATA Airlines, that's open to some critical thinking.
According to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, letters went out to 45 of Sun Country's 156 pilots last Friday, telling them they'll need to find summer jobs.
"We are not going to be flying as much this summer because of rising fuel prices," Sun Country spokeswoman Wendy Blackshaw said.
Comrades... Take to the skies! _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Trading in shares of Alitalia was suspended Thursday and the company board called an emergency meeting as the troubled Italian air carrier edged toward bankruptcy.
After repeated failures to lure a buyer, the last, Air France-KLM, walked away from the deal Wednesday, options for Alitalia are running out.
The airline’s chairman, Maurizio Prato, quit Wednesday when talks between Air France-KLM and Alitalia’s unions fell apart.
_________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
In most respects, we already have "national" carriers, as in ones directly/indirectly subsidized by taxpayers. But, "we've" got choices, Comrade! American or Delta? Southwest or United?
Quote:
A common example is airlines. Even after deregulation in the 1970s, airlines continued to enjoy a seat at the federal trough during rough times. According the Congressional Research Service, between 1918 and 1998 the feds spent about $155 billion on commercial airline subsidies—guaranteed loans, airport subsidies, direct hand-outs, you name it. And the trend isn’t slowing. By some estimates, they’ve tacked on another $15 billion just since September 11, 2001. (Download the study in PDF here). link
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the business of moving people around is a money pit, whether it be by car, train, bus or airplane. Especially airplanes.
Profit margins rest on the ability to externalize public costs to a degree satisfactory enough to avoid accountability - the highway industry, for example. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4415 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
You got that right. MY wife wants us to get another car. Thats another insurance payment, more gas, more repairs, more tires, registration, plus you still have to buy the damn thing. Back when my parents had our huge family, they had one station wagon. Car seats were unheard of and lap belts were standard.
Basically they need to fly the most efficient planes with the most number of people on board. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3627 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
frankthetank wrote:
You got that right. MY wife wants us to get another car. Thats another insurance payment, more gas, more repairs, more tires, registration, plus you still have to buy the damn thing. Back when my parents had our huge family, they had one station wagon. Car seats were unheard of and lap belts were standard.
Basically they need to fly the most efficient planes with the most number of people on board.
Unlike Champion and Aloha ATA does own some newer planes in their fleet, 12 (737-800), 6 (757-200) and 4 (757-300). Those 22 planes will be snapped up by one of the bigs, probably Northwest which is rapidly grounding old DC-9 aircraft that are relatively speaking fuel hogs. All of these aircraft types have much larger passenger capacity than the DC-9, but by flying more passengers in a more fuel efficient aircraft they would still come out ahead. It really all depends on the demand for the routes where they are now using the DC-9 aircraft.
WIKI ATA _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: PO strikes down 3 airlines - Champion, Aloha, ATA
When we lived in Fort Lauderdale 15 years ago or so, I worked for ATA. At the time, as I understand it, our airline was the only one flying in the black. And all due to government contracts, as America's largest charter flight carrier, that the military regularly used. They also had full L-1011's several times per week to Lagos Nigeria...hmmmmI wondered at the time what that was all about!
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