Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: Misguided national priorties?
[RANT ON!!!!!]
Kinda amazes me that (we) American's in general have misguided priorites. For example just watched the daily show, and saw a segment where obama was doing a photo opt in pennsylvania trying to show that he could relate to blue collar workers. IMHO that is just another example of misguided priorties and the general dumming down of America.
To me it seems what needs to be done in the country, is blue collar workers should set their sights higher and look at a Harvard education as a good thing. This country became a super power because educated individuals, had the freedom to start various businesses which in turn provided employment and allowed people to work their way the social/economic ladder. There always is going to be an ebb and flow, and as much as I hate big business corporations for the singled mindedness of looking out only for the bottom and producing many consumer products (that don't amount to a hill of beans, in the long run) , I realized that it was big business that produced the war goods that allowed the USA to defeat the tyranny of Hitler during WW II.
JFK during his inauguration speech said, "And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
Right now we in this country have a president who IMHO is religious wacko who publically stated "God chose him to lead his nation"
There is nothing wrong with beliefs, but one should realize that religion should also mean tolerance of people with other religious beliefs. I think its a lesson that president bush and other religious zealotts never quite got. For example Bin Laden also claims to inspired by god, so I ask what the difference between president bush and bin laden? Both seem to have stated in public that god is guiding them to fight evil! I guess a quote from FDR is the best explaination I've found so far regarding why bush and bin laden have their respective zealot followers "He may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch!"
Who ever becomes the next president of the USA should IMHO have a sense of tolerance and try and remind the American of that fact. A side note after the news media and the general public become aware of "peak oil" and ever increasing costs of extracting oil, "tolerance" will help keep social order.
Another peeve I have with president bush and many american's in the general public, is there is no sense of history. Again, this seems to be a general trait that knowledge of the past, higher education or outside knowledge in general is something that is not held in high esteem. In many ways, this is akin to Madrassas started by religious wack jobs in afghanistan who only wanted to teach their students that the united states was an evil empire.
This might be monday quarterbacking, but if president bush or vice president cheney had balls n' brains and really made an effort to learn about the people and history of the middle east and of the stans, they would realize that the british tried playing the great game in that area in the late 19th century and got their ass handed to them, the soviets also tried to use military might in that area and also got their ass handed to them. But nope they are trying the same military BS that was tried and failed to change the culture in that part of the world not just during recent time, but streatching far back to the times of alaxander the great.
Its been said with great force comes responsibility, and IMHO the bush administration has not used "the force" wisely! Think about the response that president bush gave right after 9/11, basically there was a time article I just discovered that sums up what bush and the american public wanted to hear:
.....And for God's sake keep shopping — "I ask your continued participation and confidence in the American economy" — and keep praying: "And finally, please continue praying for the victims of terror and their families, for those in uniform and for our great country. Prayer has comforted us in sorrow and will help strengthen us for the journey ahead....."
I find it ironic that the response to the subprime crisis is much the same. Right now an undereducated, in-tolerance, and un-disciplined american public and political leaders are looking for quick solutions. I hate to be the one to break it to them but, there are no simple answers or painless fixes.
I'm not an economist, but because I'm open to learning new complex subjects like economics, I realize that Credit Default Swaps or CRS could be the next economic term in the public lexicon (and not because its a good thing).
.....The CDS market exploded over the past decade to more than $45 trillion in mid-2007, according to the International Swaps and Derivatives Association. This is roughly twice the size of the U.S. stock market (which is valued at about $22 trillion and falling) and far exceeds the $7.1 trillion mortgage market and $4.4 trillion U.S. treasuries market, notes Harvey Miller, senior partner at Weil, Gotshal & Manges.....
Basically CDS is one reason why bear stears was rescued. There was fear because bear stearns was leveraged and so intertwined in various financial markets, allowing bear stearns to fail would be like stopping delivery of a critical piece needed in a "just in time" assembly line. In other words, it would be like if there were no tires produced, then even though tires are a small cost of a vehicle overall, if there were no tires produced then cars in general could not be produced.
FYI the bad economic news does not end there, I've read estimates that each american family is about $500,000 in the financial hole because of unfunded mandates like social security and medicare.
I'm not an expert in any one field, but since there are lots of other non-experts flooding the public air ways with their opinions (like rush limbaugh on the right and the dailykos.com on the left), thought I'd share my own opinion with who ever reads this rant. In the future I think there is going to be an ever growing problem with oil (basically demand will exceed supply), and I think as bad as it seems now, the economy of the USA is in much better shape to weather the storm than emerging economies of china, india, mexico, etc.
We in this country have an advantage dealing with future problems like peak oil in that we have great public infrastructure compaired to china, india, mexico, etc. but in general we have misguided priorties and are in serious need to change our expectations. To get thru any crisis, requires a sociey and political leaders that embrace learning new topics like economics, admire higher education in scientific knowledge, a sense of tolerance/self sacrifice, a sense of humor, the ability to admit mistakes and move on to confront head on a difficult problem like the subprime crisis, peak oil, etc.
so anyone else think we have misguided national priorties?
[RANT OFF] _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 638 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
[rant]
Sure we have misguided priorities. We demand that most children attend public school and then do not attempt to make those schools anything other than warehouses.
We subsidise the highways with tax money, in part, by taxing the railways, thus we have a trucking nation instead of a more economical railway system.
We hold beauty contests for the most important job in the land and we are more interested in how much a we have to spend on a pair of Nikes than how much money our government is wasting.
We are shocked by the atrocities of Columbine, VA Tech and other gun-free zones but never consider that the very places that guns are not allowed are where many of these atrocities occur.
We scream about the homeless problem, the crime problem, the drug problem, and many others but expect the federal government to fix the problem. The same federal government that has proven, historically, consistently and unequivocally, to be incapable of making very many good decision unless it involves damns and parks or guns and bombs.
And it is all, without any doubt, the fault of the American people. Those who vote typically do it based on emotion and party loyalty and those that don't vote give up their right to control the process. Worse, even fewer ever pick up the phone or write a letter or send an email telling their representatives what they think. Worse, when many do take the time, it is again through emotion that they argue instead of logic or historical perspective.
[/rant]
Thanks, I needed that. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3894 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
"Misguided national priorties?"
The problem, IMHO, is that there are hundreds of thousands of priorities, worthy mixed with worthless, that culminate in the Only national priority: "Party On!" _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
You get the leadership you deserve. America has to maintain the tyranny of academic achievement if it hopes to remain powerful. In other words, if you go on to higher education, you get a better life, if you don't, you get scraps. If the inmates are allowed to run the asylum, which has been the case for the past seven years, then the country will continue to fall from grace. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4827 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
Quote:
To me it seems what needs to be done in the country, is blue collar workers should set their sights higher and look at a Harvard education as a good thing. This country became a super power because educated individuals, had the freedom to start various businesses which in turn provided employment and allowed people to work their way the social/economic ladder.
My dad used to call them types "Paper Shufflers".
Nations are built by Blood Sweat & Tears, not by Harvard blue bloods.
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
We started as a country of hard working and risk taking individuals.
The strong building blocks prospered and overcame obstacles and
were the stuff that was lashed together to make a great nation and
the great institutions and enterprises that it required and was
capable of putting together. America was built from the bottom up.
We entered into a period of concentrated wealth and power and
as is the nature of concentrated wealth and power it always
attempts to rule and proceed from the top down. But this is only
sustainable when the individual elements remain strong and intact
from the bottom up.
When you wonder about a potential leader working with one of
the most disenfranchised elements of our society, the working
class whites of the fractured former manufacturing heart of our
nation you can be puzzled why he is not attempting to go right
for the top and lead and innovate. I contend that he understands
that if the power of the nation does not resume flowing from the
bottom up, it will be absolutely impossible to be successful from
the top down.
We are presently governed by a President and his staff that holds
deep convictions and ideas about what they believe needs to be
done in the world and in concentrated power centers in order to
deliver their shared vision of what the country should be and how
and what it should accomplish. But in Afghanistan and Iraq, it is
plain that the high resolution imagery from space and intercepted
communications and analysis from abstract pools of hired talent
does not give you the real understanding of the the people who
form and define the challenge from the bottom up. I am
convinced this is why we are seeing a stupefying and wasteful
clash of cultures that is moving all involved parties backwards and
sideways.
When the bottom up power is interrupted and misunderstood the
only option from the top down is to do nothing or to come down
with harsh and dictatorial measures from the top down.
This is a recipe for failure and history is littered with the names
and corpses of all of those who have participated in this exact
form of dissipation of human potential and national treasure.
When you run a nation backwards, it goes backwards.
Joined: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 560 Location: Washington State
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
Good post hornofhubris
It wasn't really big corp. that enrgized the country during WWI. It was the innovative genius of small corps, like Boeing. After the war, these once small corps. grew to ponderous, bureaucratic entities that have lost their edge. The ruling elite were marginalized for a couple hundred years, but they are back with a vengence and wil lbe making up for lost time. lex rex is dead, rex lex is back. long live the king (or queen) _________________ This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
Agree with the miss congeniality beauty contest analogy, even the debate questions are not all that intellectual in nature (again kinda like a beauty contest).
But I have disagree with the importants of guns and any second amendment issue when it comes to presidential issues. In the grand scheme of things, if a presidential candidate or any politician states that gun issues are the most important, I don't think with all the BIG problems that need to be addressed like mismanagement of the economy, mismanagement of natural resources like water and oil and mismanagement of fiscal policy, mismanagement of infrastructure, etc.
IMHO gun rights and gay marrage, are examples of narrow interest issues in the grand scheme of things. Put another way, stuff like guns and gay marrage, don't directly effect people's jobs (economy issues) or health (environmental issues) each and every day, so for me stuff like this is something I don't really care about (but the sad fact of the matter is these are examples of emotional issues that make for titillating info-tainment "news" stories, so this is what politicians and the general public think of as important but miss the big picture NEWS stories like "peak oil")
jlw61 wrote:
[rant]
Sure we have misguided priorities. We demand that most children attend public school and then do not attempt to make those schools anything other than warehouses.
We subsidise the highways with tax money, in part, by taxing the railways, thus we have a trucking nation instead of a more economical railway system.
We hold beauty contests for the most important job in the land and we are more interested in how much a we have to spend on a pair of Nikes than how much money our government is wasting.
We are shocked by the atrocities of Columbine, VA Tech and other gun-free zones but never consider that the very places that guns are not allowed are where many of these atrocities occur.
We scream about the homeless problem, the crime problem, the drug problem, and many others but expect the federal government to fix the problem. The same federal government that has proven, historically, consistently and unequivocally, to be incapable of making very many good decision unless it involves damns and parks or guns and bombs.
And it is all, without any doubt, the fault of the American people. Those who vote typically do it based on emotion and party loyalty and those that don't vote give up their right to control the process. Worse, even fewer ever pick up the phone or write a letter or send an email telling their representatives what they think. Worse, when many do take the time, it is again through emotion that they argue instead of logic or historical perspective.
[/rant]
Thanks, I needed that.
_________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
by misguided national priorties, I am looking at several different levels. Sure there is education, but IMHO some of the higher education that sought after is kinda useless.
For example ever notice that most of the politicians have a law back ground? With a law back ground, a person has some training in public speaking (like hillary clinton and barack obama). Since a politician has to speak in public, much like a lawyer in a court room, it comes second nature to make BS sound like, something meaningful. On the other hand, people trained in the hard sciences, math, phyisics, chemistry, often times don't have to interact with the general public, so too often they sound like idiots (with all that techno babble, so the average voter would be turned off by their message (which often times might be more subsutantive than the politicians BS).
A second aspect I'm saddend by is the rise of fundamentialist religious beliefs in this country. Accoring to an poll, eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians and of that thirty-seven percent of all Christians describe themselves as born-again or evangelical;
what I actually find sad, is the "intolerance" of many so called religious individuals, it's kinda like the same "intolerance" or religious indoctrination one would see of Wahabism taught in a
madrassa in places like afghanistan.
then there is the aspect of what people worship over here, basically material goods. The subprime mess and credit card debt crisis we are going thru is a direct result of too many people basically worshiping consumer goods, and with easy credit too many people were living beynd their means. There was an economics paper I found interesting because I've kinda observed this pheonomen when volunteering to bring broad band to low income housing.
ABSTRACT: Using nationally representative data on consumption, we show that Blacks and Hispanics devote larger shares of their expenditure bundles to visible goods (clothing, jewelry, and cars) than do comparable Whites. Moreover, we show that accounting for differences in reference group income characteristics explains most of the racial difference in visible consumption. We conclude with an assessment of the role of conspicuous consumption in explaining lower spending by racial minorities on items likes health and education, as well as their lower rates of wealth accumulation.
the mentality of easy credit is similar to how 99% of the population feels about energy (they basically don't think about it), and when liquid fuels eventually decline in production, the term "peak oil" is going to pop up in the public lexicon as suddenly as the term "subprime" did last year when people discovered the real estate market wasn't always going to go upward....
Kingcoal wrote:
You get the leadership you deserve. America has to maintain the tyranny of academic achievement if it hopes to remain powerful. In other words, if you go on to higher education, you get a better life, if you don't, you get scraps. If the inmates are allowed to run the asylum, which has been the case for the past seven years, then the country will continue to fall from grace.
_________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
Quote:
I realized that it was big business that produced the war goods that allowed the USA to defeat the tyranny of Hitler during WW II.
It was big business who also aided Hitler in production of weapons and munitions, supported him throught WWII, and at least in part built the camps.
Big business supported both sides and helped spur a war because it was profitable to do so. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 1191 Location: Madison,Wisconsin
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
Of course our national priority's are currently misguided. Almost 81 percent of America according to polls knows that.
What I find interesting is your lack of like for people who can be good at their jobs, specifically in a leadership capacity. I think it's almost a President Bush thing. You have had almost 8 years of a crappy leader. Hence, you now associate leader with moron. You then compare Barak Obama to George Bush. Which is funny, because if anyone I know has problems speaking, it's Bush.
I think your simply burnt out. Things look alot different with competant leadership for a while.
I'm not in anyway saying our leaders aren't setting the wrong policy. I personally am going to be writing a heck of a lot of letters to Barak Obama to get him on a better energy policy. But of all the choices I've seen, he certainly gives the best ideas so far.
In short, our problems aren't that our leaders are too good at public speaking. It's that, currently, our leadership is using their meager public speaking skills on the wrong national priorities. Get engaged, and make sure the next set of leaders doesn't. _________________ Azreal60
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
The_Toecutter wrote:
Quote:
I realized that it was big business that produced the war goods that allowed the USA to defeat the tyranny of Hitler during WW II.
It was big business who also aided Hitler in production of weapons and munitions, supported him throught WWII, and at least in part built the camps.
Big business supported both sides and helped spur a war because it was profitable to do so.
WW@ was not profitable for Germany or Japan. Both nations were ruined economically by the war. It wasn't profitable for Britain either. They suffered economic dislocation as a result of the war which lead to the liquidation of the British empire.
America benefited from both world wars because there was no fighting on American soil. Thats the only reason.
Also before America got directly involved in the war (before Pearl Harbor) they were heavily supplying the war effort against Hitler. Did they do that only for money? I don't think so
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
phaster wrote:
[RANT ON!!!!!]
To me it seems what needs to be done in the country, is blue collar workers should set their sights higher and look at a Harvard education as a good thing. This country became a super power because educated individuals, had the freedom to start various businesses which in turn provided employment and allowed people to work their way the social/economic ladder.
[RANT OFF]
This is the problem, in a nutshell, but you are blaming the wrong people.
I have started a business . .and I have failed.
Why?
1. Healthcare costs - Only the largest companies can afford to pay health bene's.
2. Input Costs - It is near impossible for a small business in today's environment to get the kind of prices large corporations can get.
3. Employment costs - Currently, we are seeing the biggest arbitrage in the history of the world. Corporations can pay one group pennys(overseas workforce) to sell to another group(uhm . . us) for dollars.
The global world economy has set the stage for big business to run things. Small business does not stand a chance.
A Small Retail Business? - - - yeah, right.
How 'bout a specialty store, you might ask. Even specialty stores are screwed. Wall Mart takes all of the high volume items and leaves the low volume items for you.
We are now a country designed to promote corporate goals. Those corporated goals are not just to make a profit. They are to make as big a profit as they can in any way they can. The way they can do it is to change the rules to lean the playing field toward them.
It has been a slow erosion of the goals of a country, "of, for, and by the people." An EPA rule here, and a Tax rule there, and pretty soon all rules slant the playing field toward big business. It is now to the point where we no longer care about entreprenuership. Inovation . .bleh! We are told all of this is to keep us "competitive." I do not want to be "competitive." I want to be America.
This can change:
1. Nationalize Health Care
2. Enforce Anti-Trust Laws
3. Consumption tax based on distance an item travels
4. Force Corporations to pay a surcharge to ship jobs overseas.
We might get a country back that our parents would recognize. Cause I do not like this one.
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
centralstump wrote:
1. Nationalize Health Care
2. Enforce Anti-Trust Laws
3. Consumption tax based on distance an item travels
4. Force Corporations to pay a surcharge to ship jobs overseas.
We might get a country back that our parents would recognize. Cause I do not like this one.
I've written in other threads how we (the west) need to tackle the problem of China, without resorting to war.
Items 3 & 4 above seem to be the most suitable. Of course, the big US / UK corporations who invest in China won't like it.
BTW our UK national health service "costs" all workers 11% of there wages, more for highest earners, it's called national insurance. Also gives you (hopefully) a small state pension.
Regards, Gasmon _________________ Been there, Done that, Bought the tee-shirt
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 638 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Misguided national priorties?
phaster wrote:
Agree with the miss congeniality beauty contest analogy, even the debate questions are not all that intellectual in nature (again kinda like a beauty contest).
But I have disagree with the importance of guns and any second amendment issue when it comes to presidential issues. In the grand scheme of things, if a presidential candidate or any politician states that gun issues are the most important, I don't think with all the BIG problems that need to be addressed like mismanagement of the economy, mismanagement of natural resources like water and oil and mismanagement of fiscal policy, mismanagement of infrastructure, etc.
IMHO gun rights and gay marrage, are examples of narrow interest issues in the grand scheme of things. Put another way, stuff like guns and gay marrage, don't directly effect people's jobs (economy issues) or health (environmental issues) each and every day, so for me stuff like this is something I don't really care about (but the sad fact of the matter is these are examples of emotional issues that make for titillating info-tainment "news" stories, so this is what politicians and the general public think of as important but miss the big picture NEWS stories like "peak oil")
You are right, the gun rights and gay marriage issues are not something that should even be talked about because 1) guns are individual rights which are supposed to be protected by the 2nd amendment and 2) gay marriage, in whatever form, should be recognized as a basic human right. You can call it marriage, civil unions, or Fred for all I care, but they should have the same rights under law including paying more income taxes, like the rest of us.
These things should not need debate. Unfortunately, they do because they point out the the candidate's basic understanding and concern for the constitution. As you can see, over the past several presidencies, each candidate has failed that test and the American people have rightfully suffered for it.
In the final analysis, the problem is simple. Americans do not understand their duty to their country and to their fellow citizen. They do not understand that what happens in the voting booth is one of the most sacred and important duties the citizen has. They do not understand that government must fear the people every day and not just fear making them really angry around election time. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
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