Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: School Buses and Text Books
Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The school buses in Dubuque County, Iowa, travel 4,900 miles each day ferrying kids to and from class. That's the equivalent of driving across the entire U.S. and halfway back again.
The diesel these busses run on has jumped 35 percent over the last year. The extra money paid to fuel the busses must come out of the local school district's general fund - money it would prefer to spend on other things.
"It's computers, it's teachers, it's you name it," said Bob Hingtgen, director of transportation at Western Dubuque County Community School District, located 65 north of Iowa City. "The pie is only so big. If a bigger slice is going to transportation, it leaves a smaller slice for everything else."
Hingtgen said the district spent $50,000 more fueling its 80 busses this year than it did last year, or roughly what he said it would cost for two teachers starting salaries.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 1008 Location: In the suburban sea of strangers
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
This is yet another example of a problem the peak oilers have foreseen for years. Kunstler has been talking about trouble coming to the megaschools and their giant bus fleets for as long as i can remember.
Besides the trouble with the fleet of vehicles that transport our children, you will start hearing about the rising costs of fueling the fleets of vehicles that haul away our garbage, deliver our mail, etc. _________________ The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
Several rural Kansas districts have moved to 4-day/9-hour schedules. Many more are looking into it. Saves a day's worth of bus miles, they can turn the heat down for those days, they don't have to cook as many lunches, etc. Externalizes costs onto parents who have to look after (or pay to look after) kids 3 days a week.
K-12 schools paying *anything* for software is deeply sad. I can think of no other place that is a better fit for open source apps. It's not like the kids need to create perfect Excel sheets for interaction with external clients. They need to learn how a spreadsheet works and send files to their teacher. On the server end, Moodle is now better than the expensive apps... certainly for K-12 needs. And, if you can work in a Linux environment, you could do it with cast-off (business tax-writeoff) computers, not new boxes every few years.
Textbooks are a bigger problem. There is lots of good, validated, free content available. But, schools are afraid to let teachers distribute anything that isn't paid-for and doesn't have a big corporate logo on the back.
I'd argue that a large minority of students could plow through their K-12 curriculum in three or four years of more intensive schooling, and they'd enjoy it a lot more. But, then we wouldn't know what to do with them. So we keep them locked up. _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
lawnchair wrote:
Several rural Kansas districts have moved to 4-day/9-hour schedules. Many more are looking into it. Saves a day's worth of bus miles, they can turn the heat down for those days, they don't have to cook as many lunches, etc. Externalizes costs onto parents who have to look after (or pay to look after) kids 3 days a week.
K-12 schools paying *anything* for software is deeply sad. I can think of no other place that is a better fit for open source apps. It's not like the kids need to create perfect Excel sheets for interaction with external clients. They need to learn how a spreadsheet works and send files to their teacher. On the server end, Moodle is now better than the expensive apps... certainly for K-12 needs. And, if you can work in a Linux environment, you could do it with cast-off (business tax-writeoff) computers, not new boxes every few years.
Textbooks are a bigger problem. There is lots of good, validated, free content available. But, schools are afraid to let teachers distribute anything that isn't paid-for and doesn't have a big corporate logo on the back.
I'd argue that a large minority of students could plow through their K-12 curriculum in three or four years of more intensive schooling, and they'd enjoy it a lot more. But, then we wouldn't know what to do with them. So we keep them locked up.
Although you characterize it as "externalizing" the cost onto parents, it is a good model. Changing the work week should have the same effect for commuters.
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 749 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
School buses are just about the biggest waste of good diesel there is. We need to return to neighborhood schools, and only use buses for rural districts where it's too far to walk / bike to school.
The four-day school week is a good idea...it'd not hurt to take this a bit further and extend the summer vacation from early May to late September or even deep into October. Just cut out the frivolous crap they cram down the kid's throats these days, and they'll do just fine on a reduced school year.
As for textbooks and such, that should be strictly government controlled, and the books printed at COST only...no need for greedy textbook brokers to be raking in millions from the taxpayers. Same thing with computer software...free licensing for school use should required by law...think of all the millions that would be saved on that front as well. _________________ Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
For the cost of replacing a generation of textbooks, you'd think a big state could contract a bunch of experts and generate their own textbook series. Free the content. Print proper books for schools that want them (as cheaply as possible). But, no cost at all if a school wants to use the e-reader version. And, if a student forgets his textbook, he can use the online (searchable) version from anywhere. Why not?
I guess it's the innate fear of free-riders. If one state really created good free content, then other states (and homeschoolers, and schools in other countries) would use it for free. So everyone pays more, because they worry that other people will pay nothing if they pay less. Sigh.
In college-level Computer Science, we already have this model. MIT releases a number of their textbooks as freely downloadable, though they have the sole printing rights (and don't overcharge). They get away with it because people always want to go to MIT. _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Posts: 409 Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
I think the four-day week will only be a temporary measure. Surely we'll see fuel prices that make even that unaffordable to a district's transportation budget. Eventually, lack of transporation is going to crush some schools, forcing them to fragment back into smaller, neighborhood schools. It'll be an interesting transition to watch.
I think we'll also see a contraction back to more sensible textbook policies. Affluence always seems to produce a lot of useless rubbish, like overwatering causes too much lush growth and attracts aphids. As long as we're rich, someone will set their greedy sights on figuring out a way to parasitically drain cash from government systems. Right now we have a miniature version of the Military-Congressional-Industrial Complex with regard to the constant purchashing of new textbooks for schools.
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
As a teacher of one of those large Mega school districts, I can tell you that we are facing multiple problems.
Increase in transportation costs is a big one. Our district has hundreds of buses that not only ferry students but also athletic teams to their games.
The housing crash here in florida has actually caused our enrollment to DROP. We lost 1000 students last year and the prediction is the same for next year. The evidence is clearly evident in the half built subdivisions that are scattered around the city. We get like 5000 - 7500 dollars from the state for each student enrolled in our district. A drop of 1000 students hits the budget hard to the tune of nearly 8 million dollars. Our schools receive a large portion of funding from county taxes. These taxes are based on property taxes. Since property taxes are based on house value we will receive less funding there. Also a 1/2 cent sales tax was added to pay for new construction of new schools. Guess what. Sales tax revenue is down and construction costs have skyrocketed.
In summary its a perfect storm of misery for many employees in our district. 300 positions have already been cut and more are coming.
Joined: Jun 03, 2005 Posts: 216 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
Dial back travel sports. No travel sports in grades lower than high school. Intramurals are fine. High school - fewer games, stay within 25 miles.
Interesting thought about breaking up the mega district schools. Almost impossible to think where to start. However - the computer allows centralized business operations, for example, from one location. You could staff a place with fewer teachers, even 1 per subject.
Troyboy, has ANY thinking been done other than "cut positions?"
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
I live in a small town in Wyoming (600 pop). In Wyoming parents can choose to enroll thir kids in any public school. Within the last year the enrollment at our town school has doubled. Parents who used to send the kids to town and are now chosing our local school. I dont know if the reasons are economic for the parents or not. Used to be in rural areas there were one room schools every few miles, I suspect we will return to that in most places.
I would agree that as a short term cost saving measure many areas will go to a four day week. In the long term I thnk we will se a return to one room school houses for rural areas, perhaps agumented by use of internet schools and resources.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4329 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
Troyboy1208 wrote:
As a teacher of one of those large Mega school districts, I can tell you that we are facing multiple problems.
Increase in transportation costs is a big one. Our district has hundreds of buses that not only ferry students but also athletic teams to their games.
The housing crash here in florida has actually caused our enrollment to DROP. We lost 1000 students last year and the prediction is the same for next year. The evidence is clearly evident in the half built subdivisions that are scattered around the city. We get like 5000 - 7500 dollars from the state for each student enrolled in our district. A drop of 1000 students hits the budget hard to the tune of nearly 8 million dollars. Our schools receive a large portion of funding from county taxes. These taxes are based on property taxes. Since property taxes are based on house value we will receive less funding there. Also a 1/2 cent sales tax was added to pay for new construction of new schools. Guess what. Sales tax revenue is down and construction costs have skyrocketed.
In summary its a perfect storm of misery for many employees in our district. 300 positions have already been cut and more are coming.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
What a mess. Fuel prices high, and around here, a lot of the stuff is funded with property taxes, and you know what is going to happen once the next assessment comes in.
Plus, the school districts out here in suburbia have taken on a lot of long term debt to finance future expansion, but that is all contingent on the building of new subdivisions farther and farther out.
Then there is the problem of the cirriculum being developed by some politically correct product of the 60's that has finally made it up to the school board, and is dumbed down so little johnny who cannot read can pass, thus not screwing up his self-esteem. There is the related problem that the system is set up to solve the social problems of 1970 rather than the social problems of 2030, when these kids will be running the show.
Then there is the other problem of about 20% of the country's school systems being taken over by the fundies who still do not believe that earth rotates around the sun.
Then there is the other, other problem that says that the farther out into the country you go, the more likely you end up with some pedophile as the county schoolteacher.
Then, there is the hilarious issue of "certification" which says that some 2.0 gpa ghetto thug that manages to make it through the education program in the football factory is, in the eyes of the state, more qualified to teach than some bright, successful person from real life.
I toyed briefly with the idea of running a high school in my basement. I would take six kids, at $20K per year, and by the end of four years, guarantee a nearly professional level of expertise in a variety of topics, including writing, critical thinking, math, science, history, ecology, and public speaking (this package will take you far in life.) I might let them have a prom.
But since I am not "accredited" the poor kids would be hard pressed to get into a college, despite the fact that the "accredited" kids from the ghetto school downtown can sail in no problem. So the situation is stupidly set up to self-perpetuate itself.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
lawnchair wrote:
For the cost of replacing a generation of textbooks, you'd think a big state could contract a bunch of experts and generate their own textbook series. Free the content. Print proper books for schools that want them (as cheaply as possible). But, no cost at all if a school wants to use the e-reader version. And, if a student forgets his textbook, he can use the online (searchable) version from anywhere. Why not?
Because the schools receive federal funds and for that the feds dictate policy and sources. Is it any surprise that they force them to use overpriced content (not even collated for lessons) sourced from a mega-print shop?
I wonder who that taxpayer money is being laundered too....
-G _________________ All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: School Buses and Text Books
Waterthrush wrote:
Dial back travel sports. No travel sports in grades lower than high school. Intramurals are fine. High school - fewer games, stay within 25 miles.
Interesting thought about breaking up the mega district schools. Almost impossible to think where to start. However - the computer allows centralized business operations, for example, from one location. You could staff a place with fewer teachers, even 1 per subject.
Troyboy, has ANY thinking been done other than "cut positions?"
There is talk of a four day school week. We already shut down AC and stuff on the weekends. It would make a huge difference if another day was done of shutdowns. I am willing to work longer days to achieve this. Freshman sports could be cut next year. Also there are small rural schools (200 students or less) that are being closed and then routed to more central locations. This alone is saving millions but the small communities nearly rioted over the decision. We haven't laid anyone off however. Natural attrition and retirments could replace the 300 teachers. We have 6000 teachers in our district. Enrollment is around 75 000 students.
We won't know anything till May 2nd regarding next year. That is when we find out how much money we get from the state legislature. Our budget year begins July 1st
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