We cannot drill our way out of this oil crisis. Since 2000, oil companies working in the U.S. have doubled the number of wells drilled per year.
Although increased drilling has added new oil to the nation's supply, it has not done so fast enough to offset the terminal decline of existing fields.
We are going to have to import more of our oil. Period.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4149 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Toyota Prius sales pass Ford Explorer!
Peak Oil is a liquid fuel crisis, not an energy crisis.
Swapping out the oil and replacing it with electric/battery transportation solves Peak Oil.
Now we just have to work on fixing the electric grid by replacing coal fired power plants with something cleaner.
You have to separate the two issues in order to have two separate solutions. Otherwise the conversation gets bogged down. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Why do cars need to be so heavy? - Comparing Malibus
Denny wrote:
I was reading the Motor Trend article today, in which they compare four mid-size cars. See Motor Trend
Here is something that really caught my eye. Today's Malibu is substantially heavier than the original from 1964. Even in terms of the critical weight to power ratio, the 1964 Malibu was better by the numbers, although the 2008 Mailbu has a more powerful motor. The 2008 outdoes the 1964 in accerlation, I believe mostly due to great advances in engine controls and subsituting fuel injection for carburetion.
1964 Mailibu:
Weight: 3,060 lbs.
Length: 194"
Power: 220 hp (SS model 6.1 L. V8 )
Price: $2,635
0-60 mph time: 9.7 seconds
I guess the auto industry must be a mature one now, its remarkable how many of the key specs are so similar 32 years later.
I know there have been technological upgrades which have added weight (more safety and emission devices for example), but there have been many other technical changes which have really subtracted weight:
Unibody vs. body on frame back in 1964
Extensive use of aluminum in power train vs. cast iron
Higher revving, lower displacement engines
Much simplified ignition systems, due to electronic advances
Higher efficiency radiators, much smaller than the past
Front wheel drive, eliminating drive shaft and rear axle casting
Tiny spare wheel vs. full size
Many substitutes of plastic for metal (eg - master cylinder
So, what gives? any auto engineers out there care to shed light on this one?
It actually seems that if Chev took one of their '64 Malibus and simply swapped some components, it would outdo the 2008 in terms of efficiency! Just swapping the 2008 powertrain into the 1964 chassis would chop the weight by several hundred pounds, you'd think.
Not only interesting about the specs but the cost as well should'nt be as much, here's a inflation calculator results.
What cost $2635 in 1964 would cost $17668.25 in 2007.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2007 and 1964,
they would cost you $2635 and $403.98 respectively.
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Why do cars need to be so heavy? - Comparing Malibus
Denny wrote:
Even in terms of the critical weight to power ratio, the 1964 Malibu was better by the numbers, although the 2008 Mailbu has a more powerful motor.
How so? The 08 Malibu is 3.2 seconds quicker to 60 mph (and that's a HUGE difference in speed), and it probably gets at least 40-50% better gas mileage. And the 08 probably stops much, much faster and handles far better as well.
So how is the old one better, except by curb weight?
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 314 Location: san jose CA
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Why do cars need to be so heavy? - Comparing Malibus
I know a good bit about classic cars and I can almost certainly tell you the 64 Malibu was not 3060 lbs especially with a big block all iron V8. My 71 Dodge Dart was 3030 lbs with a 6 cylinder and its considered a light weight compared to most American cars of its time. That Chevy was probably at least 3500 lbs.
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: When will they ever learn? U.S. muscle cars for 2009
A reply to what this post was about,, [will they ever lean, the big 3]
If you think they are only selling these to rich people you are wrong,, they need to sell thousands of these HP cars to make the profit the big 3 needs,, American auto makers are so slow at learning what is really needed in the very very near future with our autos and gas price,, 50-100 mpg is what is going to sell fast in the next few years and the ever so big 3 that is having money problems and still making HP cars and 15 mpg SUV's are going to find them selves in a big money hurt and way behind the ball,, its almost as if they are destroying the compaines,, maybe they want to file for bankrupecy so they cant get rid of the union and all those retirees to make a better come back..
I myself like fast and own a RV but all my future auto purchases will be fuel efficient,, I have grown up and its time to move a head, I just wish the big 3 would wise up and get a clue before there sells dry up,, maybe thats why there sells are down 15% today,, it seems that most of the new car lots here in Las Vegas have lots of suv's and big trucks,, I cant figure is there people still buying these big gas guzzlers or are they just sitting there hopeing the gas will go down and fools will rush in.....
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fords answer to peak oil and global warming ! very good
Maybe Ford made it to show at auto shows to make the fullsize suv's look small and fuel efficient and it might drive the big suv sells back up,,, BUT I DONT THINK IT WILL WORK..
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: When will they ever learn? U.S. muscle cars for 2009
emersonbiggins wrote:
camaro wrote:
If I want to drive a car dictateted by the gov or someone else , I'll move to a communist country.
You drive on roads designed, built and maintained by the government, and your only concern is your free choice of what to drive on them?
Talk about irony. The interstate highway system is the largest communist project ever undertaken, and it seems to make gearheads like yourself quite happy.
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fords answer to peak oil and global warming ! very good
Concerned wrote:
Please stop whining, if you can't provide value and compete then ultimately you don't have a right to eat let alone enjoy the goodies of a free capitalist society.
What capitalist society do you live in? _________________
pstarr wrote:
I regularly call on my "Mother" and her ample bosom
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4149 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Fords answer to peak oil and global warming ! very good
Honestly, I cry a little on the inside when I see pictures like that.
If I see this thing parked next to me, I'm slashing the tires. Of course, you probably need a chain saw to cut through the rubber on something like that. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: When will they ever learn? U.S. muscle cars for 2009
camaro wrote:
In response to the cars they have in europe most countries won't allow any mods to the vehicles that were not stock. We have a different auto culture here in the states and the goverment is the last thing I want telling me how to live my life or how to have fun.
Yeah, Europe has greater population density so strict emissions laws are needed to minimize health problems. Some places in the states have lower density where pollution isn't a problem and/or just don't care if the public suffers from increased cancer rates and all that.
camaro wrote:
My '06 Charger with a 5.7 HEMI gets 22 to 25 mile per gal. Thats better than alot of cars today. Oh I drive about 4500 miles a month on average so the mpg ratings are pretty accurate.
Whoo boy! $8000+ per year in fuel costs. You got money to burn. Literally! _________________
pstarr wrote:
I regularly call on my "Mother" and her ample bosom
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: When will they ever learn? U.S. muscle cars for 2009
Musclecars wouldn't be so bad on gasoline if some attention were paid to weight, aerodynamics, and gearing. All of these things could be done without effecting looks, ride quality, ect., while still improving performance parameters.
The classic Dodge Charger Daytonas and Plymouth Superbirds had a 0.28 drag coefficient. The average car sold in the US today is around a 0.32, and the most aerodynamic car currently sold in the US, the Toyota Prius, is a 0.26!
We could still have a musclecar body with a Cd in the 0.16-0.18 range, and with a V8, it would probably get close to 40 mpg highway...
Couple that with a V8 turbodiesel(eg. Audi A8, 350 hp, 40 mpg, 5,000 lbs, 0.26 Cd), and you could have a high mpg screamer that does 0-60 mph in 4 seconds and gets highway fuel economy to rival that of the Toyota Prius...
Nevermind the performance possibilities an electric drive would bring. The era of the electric musclecar could have begun in the 1990s if the auto industry wanted to make EVs.
Of course, Detroit isn't going to do that anytime soon. They rather like rationing out advancements as slowly as possible so that they can maximize profit on each tiny incremental improvement. Leapfrogging the technology to what we currently have today would mean they'd have to do some more R&D in the future, and the high fuel economy of such cars would be bad for all of those oilies investing in the auto industry, where the resurging profitability in the auto sector would still not be nearly as much money as the money lost in the oil sector from reduced oil sales...
Quote:
Our "high" standard of living in the USA peaked around 1970,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's what happened.
Since 1970, productivity per capita in the U.S. has about doubled. Yet, now both parents have to work for a lower living standard than the previous generation enjoyed with only one parent working!
Guess where all that extra wealth generated went? The top 1% wealthiest of the world's population now own 40% of the wealth and account for 32% of the world's resource consumption, more than the bottom 90%(that bottom 90% which still includes half of the world's middle class!).
That is where the bulk of the problem rests: society's elite. They are consuming too much, and still want more. The middle class gets much more of the blame than it should.
Joe Sixpack isn't the one with an ecological footprint so large that if everyone lived like them, they'd need 90 planet Earths. J6P in the U.S. has an ecological footprint of about 4.5 planet Earths if everyone lived like them, and close to that living standard could be retained on perhaps 2 planet Earths if everyone lived like them once all of the innefficiencies of this society used by society's elite to extract wealth from J6P were done away with.
Even in a near-depression, sales of luxury yachts, automobiles by the likes of Maybach, Bentley, BMW, and Porsche, and multi-million dollar homes keep rising. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: Re: When will they ever learn? U.S. muscle cars for 2009
camaro wrote:
If I want to drive a car dictateted by the gov or someone else , I'll move to a communist country.
When it gets to the point where there are actual shortages of gas, you can bet that the government will be rationing how much gas we can buy regardless of how much money we have on hand. It's just too vital a commodity to allow gas to burn up in a Camaro or a Vette rather than an ambulance or a farm tractor. When that day comes, people are going to just have to paint racing stripes down a Prius and learn to love 14" rims.
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