Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Quote:
Ethanol is now usually sold as 10 percent of a fuel mixture that includes 90 percent gasoline. The government is thinking of ordering refiners to raise the blend to 15 or 20 percent. Ethanol generates fewer miles per gallon than regular gasoline. And it's not yet clear, according to the Consumer Reports website, how the higher blends would affect engine reliability or longevity. Before the government insists on a new fuel blend, it ought to examine all the hidden costs.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Which means that ethanol consumes an equal amount of petroleum and electricity. Because it has a negative eroei. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Some of the first phrases in economics textbooks are that economic efficiency is not the same thing as the normal definition of efficiency. So even if ethanol is a black hole for energy and food, as long as some clown is making money peddling it then it is OK. Such voodoo think is what has contributed to our current mess. The almighty god called profit is all that matters. Long term costs to individuals and society are of no concern since they don't figure in daily business transactions.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
dissident wrote:
Some of the first phrases in economics textbooks are that economic efficiency is not the same thing as the normal definition of efficiency. So even if ethanol is a black hole for energy and food, as long as some clown is making money peddling it then it is OK. Such voodoo think is what has contributed to our current mess. The almighty god called profit is all that matters. Long term costs to individuals and society are of no concern since they don't figure in daily business transactions.
Most people, especially the decision makers, are out of touch with the planet. They live and work in suburban ghettos and do not see or even comprehend what a livelihood is or where their wealth comes from. All they know is the almighty dollar and images from TV and magazines. Sad state. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Well boys, we have to derive our transportation fuel from somewhere. I hear oil production is reaching a peak. We can go back to steam engines, horses and sails, which would be fine with me, but until then the wheels will keep on turning.
It's too bad they have to use corn; some other biomass would be preferable. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 833 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Are there any real calls, by people in a position to mean anything, to stop this trend? Which ethanol providers can meet the extra demand, then? How will they do it other than by outbidding the food providers? Will the US begin to import ethanol such that imported ethanol is as dangerous to 'national security' as imported oil? _________________ "Hope encourages men to take risks; men in a strong position may follow her without ruin, if not without loss. But when they stake all that they have to the last coin (for she is a spendthrift), she reveals her real self in the hour of failure."
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
The ethanol boondoggle was created by GW Bush and is just another in a long list of crimes against the USA, the people of the world, the planet earth, and future generations.
Without his lies and subsidies the whole thing would have just died a natural death because corn ethanol is a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. It has a negative energy return. That means it takes more energy to produce the stuff then is contained in the stuff:
-petroleum for tractor diesel, fertilizer,
-petroleum to harvest and delivery to the mill,
-energy to grind the corn.
-electric energy (from coal and petroleum) to hydrolize the starch into sugar,
-more electricity to heat the fermentation liquid and manage the fermentation,
-much more electric energy to triple distill the alcohol.
A COMPLETE WASTE OF ENERGY.
BLAME GW for turning this waste into another big government, taxpayer subsidized favor for his friends at ADM and Cargill. They are the only beneficiaries. The farmer will not win out because there is little or no more arable land to convert. He is just moving one crop over to another. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
The government should stop monkeying around with biofuel subsidies and let the market sort things out. _________________ "I eat the pretzel, it get stuck in the throat and I pass out..." - George W Bush
March 7, 2007 Remarks by the President to Political Appointees
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Funny thing with energy transfer is not all energy is priced the same in the market! This is what allows it to make "economic sense" even though the EROEI is/may be negative. _________________ Introducing the human evolution.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
ANewHuman wrote:
Funny thing with energy transfer is not all energy is priced the same in the market! This is what allows it to make "economic sense" even though the EROEI is/may be negative.
Then why not turn the coal directly into petroleum with Fischer-Tropsch, or better yet power electric trains. Either would result in less losses of efficiency and the latter would actually save energy. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 662 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Damn that Bush!
From Hillary's site
So we need to take immediate steps to make sure that the rapid expansion in biofuels continues and that we not only have the vehicles that can run on ethanol, but we have places where you can get them filled.
And the Obamessiah
Obama also called for higher fuel efficiency standards, greater ethanol production, and making E-85 pumps widely available. Obama also urged US automakers to produce more flex-fuel cars that can run on blended gasoline. "It is time to install flex-fuel tanks on every car, and for government to cover this small cost."
You guys wil be begging to kiss his asp, and build his statue after 6 months of either one of these two clowns
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4420 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
The decision to turn to corn-based ethanol was the single biggest mistake in US domestic economic policy of the past decade.
The entire thing is a disaster. Corn ethanol is extremely harmful to the environment and probably causes more CO2 emissions than gasoline. It's an expensive waste of taxpayer dollars, a waste of farm land and a waste of food. It's extremely distorting and is driving up food inflation across the world.
I could go on for pages.
I just hope that it gets cut out of the budget at some point but I feel like it's become a self reinforcing loop.
High oil prices lead to increased interest in ethanol which pushes up oil prices which leads to MORE interest in ethanol...
Can we start bitch slapping Congressmen yet? _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Quote:
The ethanol boondoggle was created by GW Bush and is just another in a long list of crimes against the USA, the people of the world, the planet earth, and future generations.
Without his lies and subsidies . . .
Please. Isn't all that a bit simplistic?
Has the method of making laws been changed?
Does the president now draft the bill, vote on the bill, and pass the bill, sua sponte?
Oh dear Lord, please tell me you're not a card carrying Democrat.
To all those who believe that Dems and Pubs aren't just two sides of the same filthy coin, answer this:
What the hell have your pack of liars done in Congress over the last 2 years to change any of the negative things to which you ascribe all blame to the current president?
What's that? Crickets?
And when I ask the donkeyshit eaters who support Hillary how and when will she change things, they never have an answer.
For a bunch of years we heard "Bush and the Republican Congress".
The the Dems took Congress and, instead of holding their own to task, we have heard since, "well we can't do anything without the presidency."
What will these donkeyshit eating lunatics say when OHillary takes office and, yet again, nothing much changes?
Stop eating the donkey crap.
It's not "Bush".
It's ALL OF THEM.
If you allow yourself to become too distracted blaming everything on one guy, you'll allow yournself to miss the fact that most of the Congress on both sides of the aisle is completely complicit in all that has happened.
Patriot Act vote - 98 - 1 in the Senate.
If you think the 48 or so Democrats who voted by that are not part and parcel of the debacle of the last 8 years . . .
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Fishman wrote:
Damn that Bush!
From Hillary's site
So we need to take immediate steps to make sure that the rapid expansion in biofuels continues and that we not only have the vehicles that can run on ethanol, but we have places where you can get them filled.
And the Obamessiah
Obama also called for higher fuel efficiency standards, greater ethanol production, and making E-85 pumps widely available. Obama also urged US automakers to produce more flex-fuel cars that can run on blended gasoline. "It is time to install flex-fuel tanks on every car, and for government to cover this small cost."
You guys wil be begging to kiss his asp, and build his statue after 6 months of either one of these two clowns
Bush put the program into effect, the DemoIdiots are only sucking on the tit he primed. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
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