Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Cashmere I am not naive. They all suck, but Bush sucks more. I believe the democrats would have been partial to reason before the bakshee started to flow. Now they are bought as well. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7024 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
More went to your Sausage and Egg McBiscuit ...
Which are you going to give up?
Quote:
(2006/07 Statistics)
Animal Feed
5.6 billion bushels of corn went to feed animals. Your bacon and egg breakfast, glass of milk at lunch, or hamburger for supper were produced with U.S. corn.
47% went to hogs, 29% to beef cattle, 18% to poultry and 6% to dairy cattle.
Exports
More than 2.1 billion bushels of corn fed people and animals in other countries.
The 10 biggest customers for U.S. corn are: Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, South Korea, Egypt, Colombia, Algeria, Canada, Israel and the Dominican Republic.
Corn Sweeteners
753 million bushels were refined into corn sweeteners. Read the labels on beverages and foods to find corn sweeteners in colas, candies, cakes and cookies, lunch meats, jams and jellies, snack foods, salad dressings, and ice cream.
Ethanol
2.1 billion bushels of corn were fermented into fuel alcohol.
Other Uses
272 million bushels were processed into starch for food and industrial uses: paper, textiles, adhesives, plastics, baked goods, condiments, candies, soups and mixes.
190 million bushels became breakfast cereals, snack chips, tortillas and other corn foods.
137 million bushels of corn were fermented into alcoholic beverages.
Because sweetener, starch and alcohol production doesn't use all of the corn kernel, the 3.5 billion bushels that went into those products also provided 29.4 million tons of animal feed and 3.3 billion pounds of corn oil.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
dissident wrote:
Some of the first phrases in economics textbooks are that economic efficiency is not the same thing as the normal definition of efficiency. So even if ethanol is a black hole for energy and food, as long as some clown is making money peddling it then it is OK. Such voodoo think is what has contributed to our current mess. The almighty god called profit is all that matters. Long term costs to individuals and society are of no concern since they don't figure in daily business transactions.
My econ textbook (Colander) says this
(a) efficiency - achieving a goal as cheaply as possible
(b) efficiently - achieving a desired goal at the lowest possible cost in total resources, without consideration as to who pays those costs
[Note: (b) is clearly accepts the premise that a finite consumable resource lasts a finite amount of time. The oil age will end and with nothing able to replace the scale of it so will modern society as we know it.]
It is also then assumed that an efficient market will factor in the user cost of consumption today. The problem is not in the theoretical description of a perfect market, which is an ideal that is intended to illustrate a concept. The problem lies in not understanding that no real world market is perfect. It is not at all a proper assumption to claim that human beings will save for the future when they do no have the proper information warning them of impending scarcity. This explains entirely why we boom and bust just like every other natural species. Therefore economic efficiency in the oil market has to be factored in using some multiplier to show the bias.
Thermodynamic efficiency is a more powerful and restrictive general principle than economic efficiency. The reason is simple, one calorie today is exacly equal to one calorie tomorrow, the next day and in a million years, energy is neither created nor destroyed (as far as we know.)
When considering a finite resource, no matter who a market decides to us it, it can never use more than the total. With oil since the time frame for oil creation is so long and the time frame on our demand so short we have in effect a finite resource.
The fact that we do not know exactly how much oil might be there is not a big deal since we can argue a reasonable upper limit from geology and other things. So think of the probabililty of each possible total recoverable number. Say we start with 2 trillion barrels recoverable. Now double that and go around and ask every reputable expert if it is posible to have four trillion? Now double that and go around and aske the same question and count how many would dare say yes. Keep doing that untlik no reputable expert will say yes. You have now reached that place where no human has insight into the amount of oil. After that point we would the only resonable assumption is that the probability of more oil declines as we postulate still more.
No market will price oil based upon an assumption that noone will support. If the experts turn out to be wrong, things could change quickly, however we do feel fairly confident that those in the industry are using sound science, so their own laugh line is probably a real good estimate on an upper bound for total recoverables.
So, now we have argued pretty effectively for a finite resource. What should an efficient market do when allocating that resource? Well it should try to achieve it's goals at the least possible present cost taken over the course of the endeavor. What are the goals of the market with respect to oil?
Now we hit a little snafu. What is the goal? You see for any particular use we can talk about reducing present cost by being as efficient as possible in the thermodynamic sense, and in the sense of finding the minimal use of resources that can possibly go into a product. Well rising prices force innovation in this, but again there is a limit to the possible thermodynamic and physical efficiency. So barring a major technological breakthrough we know how 'efficient' our processes will be. You see the only way that a market fails to understand that oil should be somewhere in the $150 -$200 range right now is that the market is not able to make judgements about the important constraints and trade offs in using this resource at the rate we now use it. This is being allowed to happen because there is a demand side irrationality and lack of information, and a supply side greed. We have a market failure.
But I am suggesting to you that this failure is actually an illusion caused by our choice of model, not by any 'law' that forces free markets to be fair. The weakness is in the assumptions themselves. The proper assumption is that of overshoot and collapse. This is because just like with lemmings, though not as strictly each new person is being acculturated in to the expectations of life based on what exists and some short window into the future. So demand for oil keeps growing as long as people see Americans and others living the life of ease. How much would you pay for the ability to drive you SUV to the Beach and toss out a blanket and drink a few Michelobs next to a roaring fire?
As long as there is not severe penalty for consumption the train picks up steam, the rate of growth of people and oil related wants keeps growing since there is not present incentive to stop. The consumer market is irrational in that way, it wants what it wants right now. Rationing or other reduced and principled usage is wise, as the ants which stored up their food in summer but it raises uncomfortable questions. Who gets the benefits, who pays the price. We are back where we started.
When all is said and done Americans (who claim to be the most economically educated folks in the world) will have consumed more of the world's oil resources than any other people in history on a per capita basis. It is a paradox. The system wil never work as long as human vice is a factor. Economics will never be reconciled to reality as long as it ignores human vice as factor. We would do much better if we sought to build a super-science that was a merger of sociology, economics, and psychology, and used math and stats to model and mine the data, passing that to think tanks of people well beyond the concerns of vanity. Then those groups would have to have executive authority to bind plans for the future. But wait here we go again,.... people are fallible. It is the struggle for the human soul that defines human history, not the amount of money in circulation. The whole thing is really quite a clever little circle. That is why I am in agreement with the Pope in praying for Jesus' speedy return.
Good luck with that economic efficiency thing.
'Spinning wheel, got to go 'round.' _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7024 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
It strikes me as funny how so many are so worried about trading food for fuel when perhaps an equal amount of corn has been made into soda pop, chips and beer for years. Like the examples I pointed out earlier, all are much more expendable than fuel in the short run.
But that's OK. For all of us in the know, it's all about buttered popcorn and beer and watching the big show; right?
Besides, our way of life (specifically; the snack tray and candy jar) is nonnegotiable. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Maybe its intended to drive up food prices and starve the world's poor. Then when the population has been reduced enough there will be enough gasoline available to continue or suburban way of easy living
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
DomusAlbion wrote:
It's too bad they have to use corn; some other biomass would be preferable.
Tell me about it. Even wheat to ethanol has a positive EROEI. Corn is just plain stupid. A good bet for the temperate zone might be sweet sorghum.
Quote:
Renergie was formed in March 2006 by Meaghan M. Donovan for the purpose of raising capital to develop, construct, own and operate ethanol plants in the parishes of the State of Louisiana which were devastated by hurricanes Katrina and Rita. Each ethanol plant in Louisiana has a production capacity of 5 million gallons per year of fuel-grade ethanol. Upon completion of the initial network of ten ethanol plants, Renergie will have an annual production capacity of fifty 50 million gallons (189 million liters). Renergie intends to replicate its Louisiana decentralized network of ethanol plants in Florida.
Sweet sorghum advantages
Renergie produces ethanol solely from sweet sorghum juice. This crop has received growing interest from the bioenergy community because it outperforms most alternative, firts generation energy crops. According to Renergie, the main advantages of producing ethanol from sweet soghum juice are:
High Yield – Sweet sorghum yields between 500 to 800 gallons of ethanol per acre (4700 to 7500 liters per hectare);
Water Efficient Crop – Sweet sorghum requires one-half of the water required to grow corn and one third of the water required to grow sugarcane;
Ability to Grow in Marginal Soil – Sweet sorghum can grow in marginal soils, ranging from heavy clay to light sand. Sweet sorghum has been called a “camel among crops,” owing to its wide adaptability, its marked resistance to drought and saline-alkaline soils, and tolerance to high temperature and waterlogging;
Not Harmful to the Environment – Sweet sorghum requires the use of only 40 to 60 pounds of nitrogen per acre whereas corn growers use more than 150 pounds per acre, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Less fertilizer reduces the risk of water contamination. Producing ethanol from sweet sorghum, rather than increasing corn-to-ethanol production, reduces the risk of the continued formation of dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico;
Rapid Growth – Sweet sorghum takes only 4 months to reach maturity, which is short enough to allow harvesting twice a year. Sugarcane requires 14 months to reach maturity; and
Energy Efficient – The energy requirement for converting sweet sorghum juice into ethanol is less than half of that required to convert corn into ethanol. This is due to the fact that the sugars in sweet sorghum juice are fermented directly. There is no need to excessively heat the juice to breakdown starch into sugars as required for corn.
In 2007, China and India produced 1.3 billion gallons of ethanol from sweet sorghum juice. The Renergie project will be the first time that ethanol will be produced solely from sweet sorghum juice in the U.S.
Quote:
Research
Sorghums are receiving a great deal of interest from the bioenergy community. Recently, scientists from the U.S. Agricultural Research Service released new low-lignin sorghums that are ideal for biofuel and feed. Several projects are underway to develop drought-tolerant varieties, high sugar varieties and high biomass varieties. Some sorghums promise great opportunities for use in developing countries, where they can be grown with low inputs to yield both fuel, food, fiber and fodder.
Late last year, a major breakthrough was achieved when researchers succeeded in engineering a sorghum that can grown in soils plagued by aluminum toxicity. Such acidic soils limit crop production in as much as half the world's arable land.
Might very well be possible to grow the stuff on land that isn't very good for food production. _________________ "We cut the earth until it bleeds, rain ashes from the sky
Just to make a light that no one can see"
-- VNV Nation - Carbon
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Tyler, I have come to much the same conclusion. My congressional representative said recently that most of his colleagues are voting for continued subsidies for ethanol only with great reluctance, holding their noses because they all know how badly the whole thing stinks.
I bet a bit of a push from all the good people on these threads could end this fiasco. Write or call your rep and senator and get a bunch of others to do the same, and keep doing so, and we may see a change within the year.
The near-brain dead and morally challenged segments of the environmental movement that had supported corn-based ethanol when it was seen as part of a transition to more sustainable forms, are starting to recognize that they have made a deal with the devil--not all, and not completely, but slowly, realization of the enormity of this fiasco is starting to dawn on some minds. For others, a special kind of denial is taking hold, and they will defend ethanol to the end, apparently.
"U.S. ethanol fuel production averaged 423,000 barrels per day in 2007, an increase of more than 34 percent over 2006 production, according to the Renewable Fuels Association. Ethanol fuel production totaled 6.48 billion gallons in 2007, far above the 4.7 billion gallons of renewable fuel required by the Energy Policy Act of 2005."
6.48 billion gallons of ethanol is about 4.32 billion gallons of gasoline equivolent. Gasoline consumption was about 140 billion gallons. That means 25% of the corn crop provided about 3% of the mileage for gasoline vehicles.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4991 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Pops wrote:
More went to your Sausage and Egg McBiscuit ...
Which are you going to give up?
Quote:
(2006/07 Statistics)
Animal Feed
5.6 billion bushels of corn went to feed animals. Your bacon and egg breakfast, glass of milk at lunch, or hamburger for supper were produced with U.S. corn.
47% went to hogs, 29% to beef cattle, 18% to poultry and 6% to dairy cattle.
Exports
More than 2.1 billion bushels of corn fed people and animals in other countries.
The 10 biggest customers for U.S. corn are: Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, South Korea, Egypt, Colombia, Algeria, Canada, Israel and the Dominican Republic.
Corn Sweeteners
753 million bushels were refined into corn sweeteners. Read the labels on beverages and foods to find corn sweeteners in colas, candies, cakes and cookies, lunch meats, jams and jellies, snack foods, salad dressings, and ice cream.
Ethanol
2.1 billion bushels of corn were fermented into fuel alcohol.
Other Uses
272 million bushels were processed into starch for food and industrial uses: paper, textiles, adhesives, plastics, baked goods, condiments, candies, soups and mixes.
190 million bushels became breakfast cereals, snack chips, tortillas and other corn foods.
137 million bushels of corn were fermented into alcoholic beverages.
Because sweetener, starch and alcohol production doesn't use all of the corn kernel, the 3.5 billion bushels that went into those products also provided 29.4 million tons of animal feed and 3.3 billion pounds of corn oil.
That's old news pops. That 2.1 billion bushels figure on that chart you quoted is for 2006. It increased to 3.1 billion as of 2007. For 2008 it'll certainly be much higher and closing in fast on the amount used for animal feed. What you're saying may be true this year, but won't be true for very long. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol consumes almost a quarter of US corn production
Ludi wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
What will these donkeyshit eating lunatics say when OHillary takes office and, yet again, nothing much changes?
"I wish we'd had a decent candidate."
There cannot be a decent candidate. Decency doesn't survive the gauntlet. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
here we go again,.... people are fallible. It is the struggle for the human soul that defines human history, not the amount of money in circulation. The whole thing is really quite a clever little circle. That is why I am in agreement with the Pope in praying for Jesus' speedy return.
