Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Here is something else on the incomplete nature of neo-Darwinism, and it's from an entirely scientific perspective. This book was the most scientifically intriguing book I've read in ages. A tough go, though, as it's a bit dry in spots, and I don't have a formal science education.
Acquiring Genomes.
A challenger of the orthodox "neo-Darwinist" interpretation of evolution, microbiologist Margulis has made her professional mark touting an alternative: symbiogenesis. She and coauthor (and son) Sagan have presented their ideas in earlier popular works (What Is Life?, 1995), but never as vigorously as in this volume. Essentially, the debate between neo-Darwinists and Margulis hinges on the definition of a species, and the manner in which a new one appears. To Margulis and Sagan, the neo-Darwinist model, which asserts random gene mutation as the source of inherited variations, is "wildly overemphasized," and to support their view, they delve deeply into the world of microbes. They detail the anatomy of cells with and without nuclei, positing a process of genome ingestion that creates a new species. Surprisingly, the upshot of Margulis' theories is the rehabilitation of Jean Baptiste de Lamarck, whose theory that supposedly acquired traits are hereditary has been ridiculed for 150 years. Polemical and provocative, Margulis and Sagan's work should set many to thinking that evolution has not yet been completely figured out.
http://www.amazon.com/Acquiring-Genomes-Theory-Origins-Species/dp/0465043925
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 3047 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
threadbear wrote:
clueless wrote:
threadbear wrote:
If I was a Christian, I would actually wonder if you were Satan's handmaid, Clueless. Your point of view is profoundly anti-Christ.
Not exaclty an original thought Threadbear.
Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
How do you say stfu in Hebrew?
stom ta'pe
Better do it today, tommorow is passover. _________________ Hair in my eyes like a highland steer, spring in my step like a white tailed deer. Hitch in my hip like an old sheep dog, puff up my chest like a big bull frog.-Corb Lund
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
If I am mean, what about this guy ???
Luk 3:4-9 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. (5) Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; (6) And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (7) Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (8. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. (9) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version) _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
clueless wrote:
Big Tex - I do not "reason" I proclaim. You have asked on several occasions questions referring to the "do's" and "dont's" of Christianity. The heart of the message of the Bible is mankind in all his righteousness is as filthy rags...We will never measure up and be able to do anything that pleases God. That is what I mean by it not being "doctrinally correct".
I cannot find common ground with people who I do not have common ground with, what you are asking me to do is compromise which a Christian cannot do. I ahve yet to find one person here who wants to reason from the Bible and accept it as a source of absolute truth. I do not claim to be the gatekeeper - I only claim to know where it is.
You know that this is not true brother.
'For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident.... if any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward.'
Works done in Christ do abide.
As to salvation we do not come to the cross with anything to commend ourselves, and all have fallen short of the glory of God. I am concerned that your view of yourself in Christ does not allow for the fact that you have been cleansed.
'He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ' Titus 3:5,6
and he goes on
'that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.' Titus 3:7
Again
'This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God may be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.' Titus 3:8
Since you are calling us all to obey the word, let us obey this as well.
'Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers.' 2 Timothy 2:14
Works cannot save, but faith without works is dead. This is the teaching of the Bible on the matter. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Last edited by Gandalf_the_White on Fri May 02, 2008 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
What if the bible is part truth, part crap, and God gives us the wisdom to discern? It's a collection of different books and tracts. It's not "a" book. I have always just appreciated the fact that Jesus was pretty kind, selfless and not materialistic and that was pretty much a miracle considering the age he was born into. As far as preaching the good news...I just assumed that the good news was that life doesn't end, it just appears to, when our bodies die. I don't think we are born wretched creatures, etc..etc...Most of us are born pretty sweet.
That is a site that has some pretty well balanced analysis of the fruits and nuts of the Christian world. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Looking at Pope Benedict's visit to the U.S., though he never brought up the topic of peak oil, it is interesting that in speaking to some students at St. Katherine Drexel school, named after a U.S. born saint, he focused on optimism and faith. He contrasted the American experience with great openness to religious expression and hunger for spiritual expression with Europe.
"Several times on Saturday the pope pointed out that America seems to be hungrier for religion than what he has seen in Europe.
Benedict has made it a mission to turn around what sees as an increasingly secular world, with the U.S. serving as a testing ground. "
This is quite a compliment. As we face some bleaker times materially, this spiritual strength of America may make it a beacon for the world again. It will be this foundation of strength, not armaments or international political intrigue, that will make America great again. It is optimism that drives creativity and new solutions.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
threadbear wrote:
What if the bible is part truth, part crap, and God gives us the wisdom to discern? It's a collection of different books and tracts. It's not "a" book. I have always just appreciated the fact that Jesus was pretty kind, selfless and not materialistic and that was pretty much a miracle considering the age he was born into. As far as preaching the good news...I just assumed that the good news was that life doesn't end, it just appears to, when our bodies die. I don't think we are born wretched creatures, etc..etc...Most of us are born pretty sweet.
Hey threadbear how are you? Not ignoring your post. I am feeling a little bit overwhelmed at the moment. Cid_Yama has me thinking about Mexico. I wish that we could find a way to give the propersity we have had here to everyone on the Continent. I am concerned for our Mexican friends.
And then I read stuff like this coming out of OPEC.
It defies reason that he could say that supply is not the issue. It's times like this I have to retreat to prayer.
About Jesus,
Alot of people respect aspects of Jesus' life and words that they see in the Bible. There seems to be a growing number who are into this 'historical Jesus' which is basically deconstructing the Christian faith to the point that they don't even know if Jesus was a real person (some go that far.)
Assuming we have grace to entertain the idea that the Bible might actually be a record written by witnesses of Christ, Jesus said this about Himself in John 14:6 'I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me.'
A question I ask is, 'Ok big claim but what is the benefit of approaching God through Jesus? Since He claims exclusive rights to be the conduit why do I want to at all?'
'And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.'
John 14:16,17
So the God the Holy Spirit will dwell within our hearts. What does that mean?
'the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control; against such things there is no law.' Galatians 5:22
'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time' 1 Peter 1:3-5
More virtue (peace is a noteworthy) and God's promise that the same Spirit which brought us peace in Jesus Name will deliver us to eternal life.
When you realize that the fruit of the Spirit is the accepted evidence of salvation, some of the arguments gainst the 'evil Christians' have to fall to the ground, since those under the Lordship of Christ and accountable to the Spirit are expected to live lives that fulfill Galations 5:22. It is not God's fault the choices made by those who claim to be Christians and much evil has been done in the name of all religions.
Not to point specifically at Tibet, but I recently learned that the actual system of Tibet is feudal under Tibetan Bhuddism. Free Tibet from the evil Chinese who hardly ever go there? Now, note I am not attacking, just saying that there is a difference between human attempts at religious observance and the type the Bible is talking about above, it is a relationship with God in the Name of Jesus that has definite signs that accompany it.
Also, I want to say that I not assuming you would not know these things, but I am sharing what amounts to my blessing. I would love to have you have the same experience of God's peace that I am currently having.
Nice to hear from you. You are up in the French Canadian realm are you not? How is peak oil playing in the media up there if at all? _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Last edited by Gandalf_the_White on Fri May 02, 2008 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3328 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
clueless wrote:
If I am mean, what about this guy ???
Luk 3:4-9 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. (5) Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; (6) And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (7) Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (8. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. (9) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
He was talking to the religious elite who were comfortable in their holiness not "sinners." To sinners he had a different message, "Come be baptized for repentance... turn away from sin... the Messiah comes... God forgives" (If I am allowed to infer some of John's preaching).
So clueless, he was talking to you with the viper comment. You tend to take that attitude towards those you consider "sinners." You think you have it all wrapped up and are ready to judge everyone. You do not show the fruits of repentance but the fruit of self-rightousness. You are the Pharisee going out to see what John is doing.
But there is salvation even for Pharisees. You can repent clueless and begin to know the joy and peace of God's love and acceptance. Then you may be able to see the truth in some words of Jesus and the other New Testament documents that you do not seem readily able to practice at the moment.
Quote:
John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone who doesn't follow us casting out demons in your name; and we forbade him, because he doesn't follow us."
But Jesus said, "Don't forbid him, for there is no one who will do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me. For whoever is not against us is on our side. For whoever will give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because you are Christ's, most certainly I tell you, he will in no way lose his reward.
Quote:
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
_________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
"The time has come for men to act like men; and for women, well, to act a lot more like men."
-Ma Cur
Joined: Oct 16, 2005 Posts: 233 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
I don't believe in religion but I'm not sure I'm atheist either. I do have a great sense of awe and bewilderment with the forces of nature. From the most amazing biological systems right down to the quantum physics (with limited and humble understanding) I am simply fascinated. The knowledge that everything in the universe IS connected (whether by scientific quantum theory or some other mystic force) is what I respect. Religion serves its purpose and in my naive perspective it is more to do with providing structure and order for the masses (particularly those that need it). And it is also therefore used as a tool to control and wield power and influence. I do not need it therefore I have not had an interest in it.
As far as Christianity and peak oil goes, I think the Amish (or Old Order Mennonites) have it half right. They purposefully limit their dependence on modern technology and reject ego based competitivness therefore they are less likely to be effected when it is no longer available. However, their Christian compassion may cause them to be vulnerable to being taken advantage of or even being brutally murdered by people reduced to basic human survival instincts, the desperate ones that will wish them dead so that they may live another day.
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Hi Wis..Praise the Lord, I am glad to hear you speak out concerning you faith.
Quote:
He was talking to the religious elite who were comfortable in their holiness not "sinners." To sinners he had a different message, "Come be baptized for repentance... turn away from sin... the Messiah comes... God forgives" (If I am allowed to infer some of John's preaching).
There were two groups of the day in the Jewish culture - The Pharisees and Sadducees and both camps were using scripture to further their own agenda, by perverting the Word of God. Very similiar to Threadbears earlier post about bits and pieces of the Bible being "crap" (or something to that effect). There are those who claim to be Saved on this blog, I am simply challenging you o examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith, much like Paul and the other Apostles did regularly, it is also worth noting most of them were persecuted and killed for their words.
Quote:
So clueless, he was talking to you with the viper comment. You tend to take that attitude towards those you consider "sinners." You think you have it all wrapped up and are ready to judge everyone. You do not show the fruits of repentance but the fruit of self-rightousness. You are the Pharisee going out to see what John is doing.
Wis, have I not posted here on numerous occasions that there can be no such thing as a self-righteous Christian ? I am not "judging" anyone, I am reading what they/you right and trying to (yes judge) on a bilbical standard, which I am certainly open to being judged by. Believe it or not Wis you just "judged" me by saying I do not show fruits of repentance, but I am OK with that - because you are examining my words and using Scripture to support that judgement - That is what we are called to do. Much the same as I am doing to those who profess salvation here.
Quote:
But there is salvation even for Pharisees. You can repent clueless and begin to know the joy and peace of God's love and acceptance. Then you may be able to see the truth in some words of Jesus and the other New Testament documents that you do not seem readily able to practice at the moment.
Wis - If someone here hated me and ended up in Heaven based on some scripture I put on this board I would take that trade in a heartbeat. You are correct Jesus went after the religous hyporcrits of his day, but does he not go after all hypocrits ? Even the ones who are self decieved ? I guess I could give you a list of all the "nice" things I have done that may prove something to you, but that really does not fit my theology because until we are perfected we can do no "good" works.
Now again Wis - you just judged my salvation and "condemmed" me...Which again I am OK with because you have examined my words, and used scripture to support your judgement. Only God knows who is saved, please remember that. That is why we are to Preach the Gospel to all living things and let God do the judging.
Even Gandalf stated he did not disagree with any of my theology, he just does not like my delivery.
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
Works done in Christ do abide.
Yes Gandalf I agree but they are not "our" works - they are a work of his working through us. This is a vital concept we need to remember. Most false religions these days incorporate a works component into their "process"(see threadbears earlier post about man being born "pretty good")
I just watched a special on 50 yrs on Everest in which a Hindu expedtion DR. was talking to a fellow hindu sherpa and saying "sometimes we need to perfect ourselves in order for the goddess to accept us" (or something to that effect). That is exaclty opposite of the Christian Gospel.
That is a biblical truth statement foundational and unique to Christianity.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4337 Location: Graceland
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
RacerJace wrote:
As far as Christianity and peak oil goes, I think the Amish (or Old Order Mennonites) have it half right. They purposefully limit their dependence on modern technology and reject ego based competitivness therefore they are less likely to be effected when it is no longer available. However, their Christian compassion may cause them to be vulnerable to being taken advantage of or even being brutally murdered by people reduced to basic human survival instincts, the desperate ones that will wish them dead so that they may live another day.
The Amish may need to get themselves a Judge Dredd type figure.
They can call him "Judge Jed":
He travels in the "Blackmobile":
Judge Jed working with his tactical unit and local authorities:
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