Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: Aug 07, 2005 Posts: 301 Location: Columbia, MO
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
Ainan wrote:
I'm a British guy, never been to America or anything but here is what i learned from the mass media.
"George Bush hates black people"
"Mass looting and firefights broke out"
"Zombie hordes and gangs everywhere"
Really, just a few armed looters can give somneone that impression. Maybe 1% or less of the people that stayed in NO did anything like that. Most of the rest passively sat around until someone resuced them.
There is a psychology I notice among some of the poor, that the do not actively control their own lives. They just let things happen. Whether this is from being afraid to fail, or just not knowing what to do, it causes problems like this.
Quote:
Now heres what I've read online:
"The police and government troops were shooting civilians"
"The police and government troops wouldn't let people out of the area, forcing them at gun point to the super dome(The stadium?)"
"The only thing people looted from private businesses were food/water and medical supply's"
What am i to believe? I would really like it if anyone who was there could write up their experiences in reasonable detail. I've read a number of them online before, but all those were the smart survivalist types who left before the storm hit.(Although i hope everyone here left before it hit too)
Much of what was looted was luxury goods like DVD players, and guns - of course food and water was taken also, but not exclusively. The government was simply paralyzed in the few days after the flooding started.
The flooding was the real problem. Any other city (say Key West or Houston) would have had free access after the storm passed, and far fewer problems than NO did.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3016 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
Oil Canals May Have Worsened Katrina
The Associated Press Tue, Jan 22, 2008
Service canals dug to tap oil and natural gas dart everywhere through the black mangrove shrubs, bird rushes and golden marsh. From the air, they look like a Pac-Man maze superimposed on an estuarine landscape 10 times the size of Grand Canyon National Park.
There are 10,000 miles of these oil canals. They fed America's thirst for energy, but helped bring its biggest delta to the brink of collapse. They also connect an overlooked set of dots in the Hurricane Katrina aftermath: The role that some say the oil industry played in the $135 billion disaster, the nation's costliest.
The delta, formed by the accumulation of the Mississippi River's upstream mud over thousands of years, is a shadow of what it was 100 years ago. Since the 1930s, a fifth of the 10,000-square-mile delta has turned into open water, decreasing the delta's economic and ecologic value by as much as $15 billion a year, according to Louisiana State University studies.
The rate of land loss, among the highest in the world, has exposed New Orleans and hundreds of other communities to the danger of drowning. Katrina made that painfully clear. …
Oil canals a problem? _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 567 Location: northern California
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
Ainan wrote:
I'm a British guy, never been to America or anything but here is what i learned from the mass media
What am i to believe? I would really like it if anyone who was there could write up their experiences in reasonable detail. I've read a number of them online before, but all those were the smart survivalist types who left before the storm hit.(Although i hope everyone here left before it hit too)
Spike Lee did a great documentary on Hurrican Katrina/New Orleans--here's a review of it:
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/whentheleveesbroke/ _________________ "Not how is the idea expressed...is the question, but how far it has obtained form and expression in the life of the artist"
H. D. Thoreau
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 567 Location: northern California
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
patience wrote:
I learned several things from that period. My wife's brother is a city cop in Houston. When the Katrina expats arrived there, the crime rate went out the roof. He told of a major furniture store (chain?) owner who came to the Dome where refugees were housed driving a 60 passenger schoolbus. He offered up to 60 people a job, to pay their first month's rent, and buy groceries for them for a week until they got their first check. Stampede, right?
Wrong. He got TWO takers!!!! The rest were content to sit on their collective asses and let the govt feed 'em. Shoulda shot every last one of the lazy SOB's that didn't try to get in line for that.
I wouldn't have gotten on that bus either. The offer sounds too good to be true (who has the resources to instantly feed & house 60 people with benevolence?). I was taught early on never to get into a car with strangers offering candy. And you would have shot me...
I already knew better than to EVER go into a large bulding/sports stadium where the door may be locked behind me. _________________ "Not how is the idea expressed...is the question, but how far it has obtained form and expression in the life of the artist"
H. D. Thoreau
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3896 Location: Graceland
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
dunewalker wrote:
Ainan wrote:
I'm a British guy, never been to America or anything but here is what i learned from the mass media
What am i to believe? I would really like it if anyone who was there could write up their experiences in reasonable detail. I've read a number of them online before, but all those were the smart survivalist types who left before the storm hit.(Although i hope everyone here left before it hit too)
Spike Lee did a great documentary on Hurrican Katrina/New Orleans--here's a review of it:
I have not watched the movie you mention, but IMO Spike Lee has gone from being an artist who used to do interesting work to a grouchy little clown whose views are so predictably inflammatory that you don't even need to turn the sound up to know what he is saying. Someone should teach him to juggle or something, because his "dis the Man" schtick is SO tired.
I am certain that in old age Spike Lee will hit people with his cane. _________________ Our window of opportunity is slowly closing...at the same time, it probably requires a spiral of adversity. In other words, things have to get worse before they can get better.
-M. King Hubbert, 1983
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 567 Location: northern California
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
Kill the messenger, Tex? Spike Lee interviews several folks caught up in the maelstrom of Hurricane Katrina, in this documentary. Someone was wishing that they could hear about the disaster from the inside--well here's the most definitive inside story in existence on Katrina in New Orleans. _________________ "Not how is the idea expressed...is the question, but how far it has obtained form and expression in the life of the artist"
H. D. Thoreau
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3896 Location: Graceland
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
dunewalker wrote:
Kill the messenger, Tex? Spike Lee interviews several folks caught up in the maelstrom of Hurricane Katrina, in this documentary. Someone was wishing that they could hear about the disaster from the inside--well here's the most definitive inside story in existence on Katrina in New Orleans.
You're right, and I'm not saying it's not a good film.
I just wish that Spike Lee would get out of the way sometimes and let his work speak, rather than his complaint-filled mouth.
I feel the same way about a lot of people--they soil their cause through their own belligerence. _________________ Our window of opportunity is slowly closing...at the same time, it probably requires a spiral of adversity. In other words, things have to get worse before they can get better.
-M. King Hubbert, 1983
Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 225 Location: West of Chicago
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
I watched the 'documentary' and thought it was good comedy. I enjoyed the part where evenhanded Spike asks the white guy what weapons he had and then asks him if he was hunting bin Laden, connecting a white guy defending his house with terrorists.
More humorous was the two black youths bumbling their way through the explanation of the 'debris' they had and how they got shot for looking at this 'debris'.
Even funnier is the video of the black cops looting.
Do a quick search on YouTube. You'll be there hours.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
dunewalker,
That same crowd got on buses to go to Houston's stadium where they were fed and housed for nothing. It was a question of do you want to work for a living, or lay around and let charity support you? Their choice was obvious. Nobody shot them, nor offered to, but a lot of locals ran out of charitable spirit in a hurry, I'm told. There were some shootings in NO, but once removed to an obviously safer city, only two wanted to work for a living.
Anybody read the line,"the crime rate went through the roof"?
Got anyone on here from Houston who can illuminate this situation?
I noticed on TV reports that NO crime rate dropped, after the fact, and was compared to "Mayberry,USA". Houston, however, had some really disgusted police.
Anybody here have nice fluffy responses to the increase in street crime in this event? Ask my childhood schoolmate, now retired from drug enforcement in a major city about his responses, after carrying his disembowelled partner up the steps into the emergency room. (They saved him.) I'm beginning to think that some of us here haven't seen the underbelly of our society up close and personal. If you have that experience, it does affect your outlook a bit.
edit: I wouldn't have shot anyone either. I don't think I know anyone who would have. The question remains, however, how should those who refuse to support themselves be treated? Jamestown rules make sense to me. If you are able and you don't work, you don't eat. Works for me. I deeply resent that my tax money contributed to feeding those louts. _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Last edited by patience on Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11367 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
patience wrote:
If you have that experience, it does affect your outlook a bit.
So far, not to the point of thinking lazy people should be shot. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
You're right Ludi. I wish I hadn't said that.
I still harbor some real ill feelings that some of that same bunch who wouldn't go to work were later arrested for violent crimes that put my family member at risk. I've known and liked the man for 43 years. To his credit, he did it all by the book, risking his life to get them their day in court. I could not, would not do his job. He has 3 kids at home. No excuses here, but maybe it gives background to my feelings about it all. _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 567 Location: northern California
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: What Did YOU Learn From Hurricane Katrina?
patience wrote:
I learned several things from that period. My wife's brother is a city cop in Houston. When the Katrina expats arrived there, the crime rate went out the roof. He told of a major furniture store (chain?) owner who came to the Dome where refugees were housed driving a 60 passenger schoolbus. He offered up to 60 people a job, to pay their first month's rent, and buy groceries for them for a week until they got their first check. Stampede, right?
Wrong. He got TWO takers!!!!
I would have gotten on THIS bus:
"Rescue hero
John Harlow
A NEW Orleans teenager saved dozens of people from the stricken city after commandeering a 70-seat school bus and driving it on a harrowing 300-mile journey to Houston.
Jabbar Gibson, who was reported by an American television channel to be just 15, was determined to leave New Orleans after two days wading alone through the filthy waters of the former red-light district of Storyville. Although he had never driven a bus in his life, he broke into a school and made off with the bright yellow vehicle.
What began as an act of sheer panic turned into what has been called a “magnificent journey” that placed Gibson among the heroes emerging from the horrors of Hurricane Katrina.
“I knew how to get over the fence, and where the keys were, so I felt it was worth the chance,” said Gibson, whose age was given by another channel as 18.
Although he had only eight passengers on board when he set off on Highway 10 towards Texas, Gibson picked up many more, young and old, stranded beside the road during the eight-hour journey.
“By the time we gotten here we had all kinds of folk on board, from mothers with young babies to people in their seventies and eighties,” said Gibson, speaking from Houston. “And when we ran out of gas we had a whip-round and everyone gave me enough cents to fill up and get here.”
The young driver, who was still looking for some of his friends and family, said he was not worried about the legal repercussions of driving without a licence.
“I don’t care if I get blame for it so long as I saved my people,” he said. “If we had stayed there, we would still have been waiting."
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