Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Andy Capp, AKA Vision Master wrote:
"The most costly Healthcare system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-crap my friend."
Just to be Clear.
Andy Capp is the resident Marxist here.
And I do mean MARXIST.
The kind who will, till the day he dies, believe that ANYBODY making 1$ more than the average citizen is getting over on everybody somehow somewhere.
He, starkly, reminds me of my mother-in-law, who immigrated from one of the long-time socialist European countries.
It got to the point where I couldn't even listen to her.
Prices going up on food? Must be Monsanto and Big Agi sticking it to the little guy.
Health insurance a bother? If we only had the European system . . .
Minimum wage stuck at 5.50? It's the CEO's each personally shitting on the little guy to keep him down.
You want to know about Andy Capp? All you need to do is consider his retort to the poster who related the anecdote about his trailer park neighbor blowing money on smokes, losery tickets, beer, gas for his big pick up.
Andy Capp, the Marxist, responded with, "the guy just wants to have a little fun with the little bit of money he gets each week."
You see how insidious that is? This is why Marxism is such a plague.
In one simple comment, Andy Capp both 1) excuses all of the man's bad behaviors that have caused his poverty, and 2) places the blame on the man's employer, who clearly is paying the man very little.
It's insidious.
Worse, it sounds very compelling to those in the swelling ranks of the "poor".
As their ranks grow, they will all be looking for the big excuse as to why they have lost what they had.
I won't matter. Which of them will want to get both barrels from me?
"You eat too much, you waste your money on cigarettes, booze, gambling, your status truck. You're not a very good worker. You give it a 1/2 ass effort while you're there, you're out of shape, you don't give a crap about the company, and you call out way too much."
Who wants to hear that?
Nobody.
What they'll want to hear is little Andy Capp, who will slyly tell them, "it's not your fault. You're not paid enough. And hey, you're just trying to have a little fun when you go out and waste 30 bucks on booze and smokes 3 times a week. It's the company owners and the "rich people" who have done this to you.
And if the ranks of the "poor" swell sufficiently, then Andy Capp will get his way, and he'll get another Marxist revolution.
But then what?
It's the same every time, folks.
They'll tax the rich, which means anybody making a decent living, and they will bleed the system to critical condition for a few decades or more.
But at some point, as it always does, natural selection takes over and the hard workers will again rise, and the Andy Capps of the world will have to let them, because even the DSE who will follow a monster like Andy Capp will eventually get tired of having less than nothing. And when that time comes, they will allow the harder working folks to rebuild it, without fatal taxation or restriction.
Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum.
Universal health care?
Health care is great in Canada?
All I have to say about Canada is this:
A guy needed surgery a few years back and the waiting list was so long that he sued the government for his right to pay for and use his own health insurance.
Mind you, he didn't want to deprive anybody of their "universal health care" - he just wanted his own.
But because Canada is run by Andy Capps, the law there used to be that they'd put a gun to your head and march you off to jail if you tried to set up and use your own health care/insurance. They give you all kinds of rationalization as to why they do this, but the real reason is because it's more important to make sure that no one has better health care than it is to ensure that everybody has good health care.
So he sued.
It went to the Supreme Court of Canada last summer or the one before . . .
And he won.
When a guy has to go to the Supreme Court to get the right to obtain a required surgery because it's taking far too long on the official government plan, that tells you that the system is garbage.
No thanks on that.
But it won't matter in the end.
Government is a cancer, and there is no treatment available at this point - so Govt will grow and grow and Andy Capp will get his way.
And "democracy" will continue for a little while longer.
It's funny. Between the elitists and the Marxists, I'm much more afraid of the Marxists - at least the elitists will let me out-compete the idiot in the trailer park described above - Andy Capp won't even let me have that.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
threadbear wrote:
jlw61 wrote:
vision-master wrote:
Quote:
The sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.
Just like our Health Care system is.
While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.
Bringing in universal care would enable the govt to act as WalMart does and pressure producers to provide the cheapest possible goods, services and pharmecueticals. If they refuse the govt. can tell them to go get stuffed. That's what the Canadian plan does with big pharma.
I knew responding to an off topic remark from the famous Vison-Master was a bad idea. He almost never gives a link to back up any of his wild claims. This thread is about gas rationing... I suggest we stop arguing about healthcare. VM, if you want to start a topic about Healthcare, go for it, I'll be glad to point out your mistakes. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
threadbear wrote:
That's a recipe for a violent revolution.
Really? When? At what price would violent revolution start?
I'm still not convinced of violent revolution in the US. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 29, 2005 Posts: 456 Location: I heard we are not the real America..Eugene, Oregon.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
I always thought that once rationing starts, only the rich will be driving anyway. Those who are still driving will make easy targets. I don't expect people to behave in a civil way when their vehicles are sidelined.
As with everything I spout these days, I hope I'm wrong.
catbox _________________ Punk is not really a style of music. It was more like a state of mind.
-Mike Watt
When I saw, "lost at least 2 weeks of work related income due to illness . . ."
What a joke.
If you declared bankruptcy because you missed 2 weeks of work for what ever reason, your financial problems go well beyond medical care.
Idiot Marxist Sociologists producing pseudo-science for citation by idiot Marxist Wikieditors who are then cited by (not here) other Marxists, who eventually convince everyone to get universal health care passed, which will result in the improvement of health care for 15% of Americans, the status quo for 15%, and a substantial lowering of quality for the remaining 70%.
And which will, no doubt, increase the bankruptcy rate.
Provide Universal Health Care and . . .
remove yet another incentive to work.
Last edited by Cashmere on Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Tyler_JC wrote:
Rationing? Bring it on!
I'll be in line every day with a gas can in hand. Then I would be selling my wares a block down the street for $10/gallon, no line.
Every rationing scheme in human history has created a black market. Look at Iraq for God's sake.
We subsidize gasoline for Iraqis and they drive it over to Syria for sale at a 500% markup.
On the plus side, one could argue that we've created jobs.
Anyone who supports gas rationing doesn't understand economics.
You are absolutely 110% without-a-doubt right-on-the-money! I know this is not in response to anything I wrote, but as I alluded to earlier, government will feel compelled to do something even though there is very little that it could constructively do. Therefore, it will do something destructive.
I mentioned earlier there IS a way to provide a rationing system that would cause only a little bit of a problem and help curb a black market. So if government has to screw around with the economy in a destructive way because the idiot sheeple demand that something be done then I say have a system where everyone (or just the poor) can buy a few gallons a week at a drastically reduced price and after that it's at the much higher market value. Hell, stick an extra 50 cents of taxes on it, I don't care, just don't screw around with my ability to buy what I need.
It would be best if only those who made under a certain amount were allowed to use the ration card since that would reduce the warping of the market. Further, by making it only a few gallons a week they have to learn to car pool and use mass transit or else pay more for the privilege to drive.
Heartless? Maybe I am. At this point I really don't care. I just know that the government is going to try to do something and I don't think we have enough intelligent people to prevent some form of rationing in the future, but we may have the ability to prevent a complete rationing system a la WWII.
In fact, a better twist is that you can buy all you want beyond the rationing card but beyond that a stiff tax kicks in which can be written off by business. That way government has a horse in the race and wants you to consume whatever you really need! Then they get a lot of extra cash to make our lives even more miserable! _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Ludi wrote:
threadbear wrote:
That's a recipe for a violent revolution.
Really? When? At what price would violent revolution start?
I'm still not convinced of violent revolution in the US.
Depends on who you ask, the Democrats thought there was one in 1994 and I suspect the Republicans are going to think the same in 2008.
If they mean an all out 1776 Thomas Jefferson overthrow of the government then, "No way, not going to happen." First, if they try to overthrow the government you'll have me and 20 million other civilians coming behind them to turn them into mince meat in a very violent and public way. I love my country and I think the form of government we have is the best in the world, we just have some of the worst possible people holding the various offices right now.
Now if they just want to line them up against the wall around June so we can get some new blood elected in November, you might get those same 20 million to help out _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6612 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Cashmere wrote:
Andy Capp, AKA Vision Master wrote:
"The most costly Healthcare system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-crap my friend."
Just to be Clear.
Andy Capp is the resident Marxist here.
And I do mean MARXIST.
The kind who will, till the day he dies, believe that ANYBODY making 1$ more than the average citizen is getting over on everybody somehow somewhere.
He, starkly, reminds me of my mother-in-law, who immigrated from one of the long-time socialist European countries.
It got to the point where I couldn't even listen to her.
Prices going up on food? Must be Monsanto and Big Agi sticking it to the little guy.
Health insurance a bother? If we only had the European system . . .
Minimum wage stuck at 5.50? It's the CEO's each personally shitting on the little guy to keep him down.
You want to know about Andy Capp? All you need to do is consider his retort to the poster who related the anecdote about his trailer park neighbor blowing money on smokes, losery tickets, beer, gas for his big pick up.
Andy Capp, the Marxist, responded with, "the guy just wants to have a little fun with the little bit of money he gets each week."
You see how insidious that is? This is why Marxism is such a plague.
In one simple comment, Andy Capp both 1) excuses all of the man's bad behaviors that have caused his poverty, and 2) places the blame on the man's employer, who clearly is paying the man very little.
It's insidious.
Worse, it sounds very compelling to those in the swelling ranks of the "poor".
As their ranks grow, they will all be looking for the big excuse as to why they have lost what they had.
I won't matter. Which of them will want to get both barrels from me?
"You eat too much, you waste your money on cigarettes, booze, gambling, your status truck. You're not a very good worker. You give it a 1/2 ass effort while you're there, you're out of shape, you don't give a crap about the company, and you call out way too much."
Who wants to hear that?
Nobody.
What they'll want to hear is little Andy Capp, who will slyly tell them, "it's not your fault. You're not paid enough. And hey, you're just trying to have a little fun when you go out and waste 30 bucks on booze and smokes 3 times a week. It's the company owners and the "rich people" who have done this to you.
And if the ranks of the "poor" swell sufficiently, then Andy Capp will get his way, and he'll get another Marxist revolution.
But then what?
It's the same every time, folks.
They'll tax the rich, which means anybody making a decent living, and they will bleed the system to critical condition for a few decades or more.
But at some point, as it always does, natural selection takes over and the hard workers will again rise, and the Andy Capps of the world will have to let them, because even the DSE who will follow a monster like Andy Capp will eventually get tired of having less than nothing. And when that time comes, they will allow the harder working folks to rebuild it, without fatal taxation or restriction.
Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum.
Universal health care?
Health care is great in Canada?
All I have to say about Canada is this:
A guy needed surgery a few years back and the waiting list was so long that he sued the government for his right to pay for and use his own health insurance.
Mind you, he didn't want to deprive anybody of their "universal health care" - he just wanted his own.
But because Canada is run by Andy Capps, the law there used to be that they'd put a gun to your head and march you off to jail if you tried to set up and use your own health care/insurance. They give you all kinds of rationalization as to why they do this, but the real reason is because it's more important to make sure that no one has better health care than it is to ensure that everybody has good health care.
So he sued.
It went to the Supreme Court of Canada last summer or the one before . . .
And he won.
When a guy has to go to the Supreme Court to get the right to obtain a required surgery because it's taking far too long on the official government plan, that tells you that the system is garbage.
No thanks on that.
But it won't matter in the end.
Government is a cancer, and there is no treatment available at this point - so Govt will grow and grow and Andy Capp will get his way.
And "democracy" will continue for a little while longer.
It's funny. Between the elitists and the Marxists, I'm much more afraid of the Marxists - at least the elitists will let me out-compete the idiot in the trailer park described above - Andy Capp won't even let me have that.
Obviously, you have health insurance.
The day you lose it is the day you change your tune.
Universal health care is one of the few justifiable, worthwhile services government can provide. Naturally therefore, it's a service US taxpayers don't receive, unless they're old enough to be close to croaking anyway.
Socialism is rampant in the US. The military is a vast socialist system.
All I want is a few of my tax dollars steered toward my broken leg.
We're all tired of hearing about how crappy the Canadian health care system is. That's propaganda. THAT's crap. I'd sell my eye tooth to have access to the Canadian system. It would sure beat NOTHING, which is exactly what I have after working for 27 years. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Ludi wrote:
threadbear wrote:
That's a recipe for a violent revolution.
Really? When? At what price would violent revolution start?
I'm still not convinced of violent revolution in the US.
Ludi, If gas prices do hit over 6 or 7.00 per gallon and only the rich can afford to get to work, there WILL be blood, in areas that aren't served by mass transit. People will riot....or they will car pool. Nah...that's not as exciting.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1632 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Pops- I hear you- lots of talk about gasoline- not too much about converging disasters- food prices soaring and then what? Food rationing? Soon to come- ihnflation hitting the price of clothing, electronics, furniture, etc etc. Buy that 64" plasma TV and 50 pound bag of rice while you still can...
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Cashmere, I don't disagree with many of the points in your post. Many people living in poverty have been authors of their own destruction. But just as many haven't, and are being taken advantage of, by their employers.
As far as universal health care goes, the Canadian system isn't perfect, and people do sometimes have to wait quite a while for elective surgery like knee replacements. But there is so much propaganda in the U.S about our system, it leaves me aghast. We can choose our own doctors, and our coverage is very comprehensive. We NEVER have a hassle about being turned down for different procedures, which is routine with American hmo's. It's also cheaper per person to insure this way, as it streamlines the clerical process. Both your medical and indeed your education system is lacking, producing many adults who are easily bamboozled by corporate propaganda.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6612 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
What T-bear said. What more NEED be said? Just this . . .
The current US health mess is the result of a long-running, noose-tightening collusion between the country's corrupt government its profit-mad health care corporations. Any middle- or lower-class American who succumbs to the propaganda and lies that help sustain this evolving disaster is just plain dumb and has been hoodwinked into voting against his or her own best long-term interests.
The "defense" budget should be cut in half (or more) and the proceeds directed toward a system of basic universal health care. Ditto for quasi-military agencies like NASA and the spook outfits and several other worthless piles of waste like the Dept. of "Education."
If the situation deteriorates much further you're going to see frequent scenes like desperate people with guns storming emergency rooms and pharmacies and physicians' offices. Hospitals getting blown up. Etc.
Nothing fancy. Just basic care for basic people. The rich can still have their own special access to the gold-plated care that is ALREADY rationed. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4829 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
jlw61 wrote:
threadbear wrote:
jlw61 wrote:
vision-master wrote:
Quote:
The sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.
Just like our Health Care system is.
While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.
Bringing in universal care would enable the govt to act as WalMart does and pressure producers to provide the cheapest possible goods, services and pharmecueticals. If they refuse the govt. can tell them to go get stuffed. That's what the Canadian plan does with big pharma.
I knew responding to an off topic remark from the famous Vison-Master was a bad idea. He almost never gives a link to back up any of his wild claims. This thread is about gas rationing... I suggest we stop arguing about healthcare. VM, if you want to start a topic about Healthcare, go for it, I'll be glad to point out your mistakes.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
threadbear wrote:
Ludi, If gas prices do hit over 6 or 7.00 per gallon and only the rich can afford to get to work, there WILL be blood, in areas that aren't served by mass transit. People will riot...
Ok, I'll take that as a prediction. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
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