Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Heineken wrote:
If the situation deteriorates much further you're going to see frequent scenes like desperate people with guns storming emergency rooms and pharmacies and physicians' offices. Hospitals getting blown up. Etc.
It's still very difficult for me to envision US citizens getting riled up like that.
(note: I was living in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. No police stations were blown up) _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Threadbare, you say you're "aghast" at the propaganda in the U.S.?
Then you write, "you may have to wait for elective surgery like knee replacement".
First, I'm not sure knee replacement is "elective". If you can't walk you can't walk.
Second, your own Supreme Court said . . .
"As a result of delays in receiving tests and surgeries, patients have suffered and even died in some cases, justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority."
I'm not a donkeyshit eater Threadbare - neither U.S. nor Canadian.
In the U.S., your system is touted as a model social system for healthcare by most people, so don't have any worries that it's being demonized - only a few of us can see what a disaster it is.
As a first matter, I can't even guess how many great doctors in Canada simply said f--ck it before going to Med school because they didn't want to be grossly underpaid for their services?
As a second matter, my main problem with a national health care plan would be that me - Mr. Healthy - don't smoke, drink to excess, do stupid things, make good money, would end up paying the bill for all the fat, red meat pounding, smoking, drinking, couch potatoes out there.
That sucks.
Why on earth would I want to be in a group plan with all the slackers of the world?
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4829 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Quote:
As a second matter, my main problem with a national health care plan would be that me - Mr. Healthy - don't smoke, drink to excess, do stupid things, make good money, would end up paying the bill for all the fat, red meat pounding, smoking, drinking, couch potatoes out there.
That sucks.
Why on earth would I want to be in a group plan with all the slackers of the world?
Until you lose your job, pay $400 Month for Cobra for 18 Months, then sign up for your own "individual" insurance, find out you have a pre-existing condition and are unable to "buy in." Get really sick, file for bankrupty, find out the laws have changed. You are then buggered.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Heineken wrote:
The current US health mess is the result of a long-running, noose-tightening collusion between the country's corrupt government its profit-mad health care corporations. Any middle- or lower-class American who succumbs to the propaganda and lies that help sustain this evolving disaster is just plain dumb and has been hoodwinked into voting against his or her own best long-term interests.
I agree, the government is largely to blame.
Quote:
The "defense" budget should be cut in half (or more)
I agree, but not for the same reasons. I think Iraq was an absolute stupid move. We have bases all over the world that should be shut down (especially in Europe and Japan).
Quote:
and the proceeds directed toward a system of basic universal health care.
Sorry, fix the above and you wont need this. But I'm willing to discuss it further in another thread.
Quote:
Ditto for quasi-military agencies like NASA and the spook outfits and several other worthless piles of waste like the Dept. of "Education."
You go brother! Private enterprise should be allowed to do space exploration. The DoEd is a waste of time and money!
Quote:
If the situation deteriorates much further you're going to see frequent scenes like desperate people with guns storming emergency rooms and pharmacies and physicians' offices. Hospitals getting blown up. Etc.
So how do we direct this misplaced energy into storming government buildings and Washington, DC?
Quote:
Nothing fancy. Just basic care for basic people. The rich can still have their own special access to the gold-plated care that is ALREADY rationed.
Please start a new thread on this last... you may even be able to convince a Constitutional Libertarian like me to agree on something basic. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Thanks VM! I've posted my 1st reply. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Ludi wrote:
threadbear wrote:
Ludi, If gas prices do hit over 6 or 7.00 per gallon and only the rich can afford to get to work, there WILL be blood, in areas that aren't served by mass transit. People will riot...
Ok, I'll take that as a prediction.
$7 is too low unless it also includes constant shortages. Without shortages, it would have to get, at a minimum, $12 to cause such things and that would be localized at best, IMHO. Only prolonged shortages or prices too high to realistically imagine would cause instant riots.
Now $7 and climbing higher until the end of the year and things will get interesting by January. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Quote:
Until you lose your job, pay $400 Month for Cobra for 18 Months, then sign up for your own "individual" insurance, find out you have a pre-existing condition and are unable to "buy in". Get really sick, file for bankrupty, find out the laws have changed. You are then buggered.
The day I'm unemployed for 18 months, willingly, is about 16 months in to the apocalypse.
Why?
Because I am a hard worker swimming in a sea of slackers - I have done many jobs, and I have done them better than most.
So if I'm not employable, then 90% of Americans aren't employable.
The world made it about 5,000 years of civilization without modern medicine.
I'll make it another few decades, or not, with or without medical care.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Last year our health insu went up 16% the year before that 16%, this year another 9% WTF?.. My boss was lucky enough to get to talk to the CEO of Health First (our provider). And he said this year so far indegent care went up 1 million dollars a month. What the hell is everyone bitching about.. sounds like we have universal care to me. You show up and they have to treat you. So I am paying for all these crack heads to get treatment. Can we put a lien on a house made of cardboard?
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6612 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Ludi wrote:
Heineken wrote:
If the situation deteriorates much further you're going to see frequent scenes like desperate people with guns storming emergency rooms and pharmacies and physicians' offices. Hospitals getting blown up. Etc.
It's still very difficult for me to envision US citizens getting riled up like that.
(note: I was living in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. No police stations were blown up)
It is difficult to envision because it hasn't happened before, at least not on a broad scale.
Consider the possibility of phase shifts, Ludi, in which revolutionary change occurs. Prior to such shifts, it is very difficult to envision the actual change that follows.
We are standing on the border of an uncharted, unpleasant land and will soon be dragged into it.
The old norms are likely to dissolve. What seems inconceivable after an era of stability suddenly becomes real.
Winston Churchill wrote a book whose title reminds me of this threshold: "The Gathering Storm." _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7017 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
I'm kinda thinking $4.40 or so for a gallon of diesel (ca price) used to grow, manufacture and deliver essentially everything each of us uses and eats is going to hurt much more than simply the increased cost of a trip to the Quick Sack or Wally's to pick it up.
It ain't the rationing of gas I'd worry about, it is the rationing - by price, of most everything else. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Cashmere wrote:
Threadbare, you say you're "aghast" at the propaganda in the U.S.?
Then you write, "you may have to wait for elective surgery like knee replacement".
First, I'm not sure knee replacement is "elective". If you can't walk you can't walk.
Second, your own Supreme Court said . . .
"As a result of delays in receiving tests and surgeries, patients have suffered and even died in some cases, justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority."
Link
I'm not a donkeyshit eater Threadbare - neither U.S. nor Canadian.
In the U.S., your system is touted as a model social system for healthcare by most people, so don't have any worries that it's being demonized - only a few of us can see what a disaster it is.
As a first matter, I can't even guess how many great doctors in Canada simply said f--ck it before going to Med school because they didn't want to be grossly underpaid for their services?
As a second matter, my main problem with a national health care plan would be that me - Mr. Healthy - don't smoke, drink to excess, do stupid things, make good money, would end up paying the bill for all the fat, red meat pounding, smoking, drinking, couch potatoes out there.
That sucks.
Why on earth would I want to be in a group plan with all the slackers of the world?
Most knee replacements are elective. It's a very common surgery for people 50 years and up, and the criteria to replace the knee, doesn't necessarily include the person being utterly wheelchair and housebound. They probably have god awful arthritis that requires pain killers, (which they will receive, without charge if they are on a limited or low income) until they can have the knee replace.
But here is the interesting thing. You immediately equate knee surgeries with being unable to walk and I have seen this kind of story in the U.S. media, quite frequently, and read about these poor souls having to come to the U.S. for their surgeries. Well guess what? The Canadian medical pays for the surgeries in the U.S., if that is the case. If it is a dire situation, and the person can't get timely care, it's outsourced. But your media don't go into those pertinent details. Always beating the drums about our terrible system.
Do people die, as a result of some idiot bureaucrat, on occasion? Sure they do. But it's very very rare. Do they suffer? Probably. But, a heck of a lot less than they suffer in your god awful system. Most health related deaths are due to the nature of healthcare, as it is currently practiced, globally.
The U.S. media and all of their dopey shills can get stuffed, for all I care. I left the U.S. partly to get away from the land of imbecility, waste, flagrant propaganda, and fantasy prone thinking.
You want to clear up govt waste? Vote in someone who isn't a militarist and cut your warfare programs.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Cashmere wrote:
I don't know. Let's take bad case scenario. Note I did not say worst case scenario.
By 2010 gas is at 10$ a gallon. I can see it.
For the average person driving 250 miles a week . . .
If you're dumb enough to be driving a car/truck/suv that gets less than 10 mpg, then it's 250 in the tank or more.
At 20 mpg, it's 125 in the tank.
At 30 mpg, it's 83 bucks a week.
At 40 mgp, it's 62 bucks a week.
Does 62 bucks a week for gasoline sound like a lot? Not to me.
But if you take your average, fat ass, tv-watching, lazy, donkey-crap eating American driving an SUV that gets 15 MGP because . . . well, just because they're dumb enough to want to drive such a piece of crap so that their even dumber neighbors can admire them, then it's closer to 175 and that's a bit of an ouch.
What is it with poor people?
All around me I see "poor" people.
I'm in the gas station in my 34mpg vehicle that cost 10 grand 5 years ago.
They're driving Ford 250 somethings, and Tahoes, and they live in trailers and crap boxes.
What is the deal with that?
And every time I see them inside buying cigarettes for 5 bucks a pack and losery tickets to to the tune of 30 bucks and some pure sugar confection in a pre wrapped container and a 1 liter bottle of tooth rot for 2.10 and then I hear them grumble, "I can't believe the price of gas", I want to say, "I can't believe that someone as poor as you is as stupid as you."
And eventually all of these idiots who have been dumping 25% of their paychecks into car payments and gas will eventually figure it out or be walking.
And, personally, 10$ gas can't get here soon enough for me.
Why? Because unlike many of the other socialists above me in this thread, I'd much prefer to have 5 hillbillies crammed into an AMC Gremlin, each killing themselves with a Marlboro red in a fog of smoke, then have each of them driving a 4,000 pound truck that's getting 8mpg for no other reason than they equate the size of their vehicle with the desired size of their phalus.
350 Gas? Good riddance.
The sooner we get to 10 the better.
And so as not to be unfairly harsh with the stupid rednecks who choose to be poor in this country, I also look forward to the day when Suzie Homemaker and Joe Sixpack have to drive Geo Metros rather than Chevy Gargantuans and Ford Jupiters.
WOW - I nominate the above for the best of 2008. So good I quote it all. (so good I pinned it up at work !!).
Can't stop laughing, but the irony is that you could also write the same script for the UK.
For "poor" & "rednecks" read CHAV (see, have = chav). etc etc
BTW we allready NEARLY have $10/gallon diesel
£1.27/litre x 4.53 (litres/uk gallon) = £5.75 / uk gallon
£5.75 x 1.97 ($/£) = $11.33 / uk gallon
$11.33 x 0.83 = $9.40 / US gallon. - Only 60 cents to go !!
And the daft buggers quewe up patiently, and pay it.
I read today oil at a new peak. Perhaps rationing on the way. One author in this thread wrote re a system using nominated c/cards. Seems fair & "orderly". WHEN it comes to that.
We have an imminent national emergency here, refinery strike next week to affect ALL of scotland & N England. (long link - look at BBC news)
Just the start, Folks, Cheap energy, all kinds, is now a myth.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
Kingcoal wrote:
History has shown that nothing works like high prices. The problem is that back in WW2, before suburbia, people generally lived relatively close to work. I used to ride the R7 train from Bensalem, PA to Philadelphia. That route went through Kensington, an old manufacturing corridor, now all abandoned. You have groups of old factories about a 5 to 10 minute walk from each train station. Also, most of the people who worked in those factories lived in the row houses nearby. Before WW2, it seems like most working class people simply walked to work. In Philly, they used to call those neighborhoods, "lunch pail communities" because of all the men walking with lunch boxes. From an energy standpoint, places of employment in the cites, with public transit nearby is very efficient.
I have no idea what people are going to do these days. Hell, I know a lot of people who can barely afford to drive to work as it is now. I guess huge numbers of people are going to just park the car and stay home and collect government benefits. The problem is that high fuel prices are fantastically regressive, affecting the working poor exponentially more than higher classes.
I think the US's future will be that of...'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.'
1940's House PBS DVD shows how rationing affected the masses.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing
mos6507 wrote:
Denny wrote:
They're driving Ford 250 somethings, and Tahoes, and they live in trailers and crap boxes.
I went to Sizzler last night. Should have known what to expect, but I saw some interesting vehicles on display in the parking lot. There was one jacked up truck with the metal testicles hanging from the trailer hitch. I have to say I'm getting radicalized enough that one day I may start carrying wirecutters around with me for the expressed purpose of castrating these things.
Forget worrying about what others decorate with.
You will need to armor plate your gas tank for as you sit in Sizzler they will have punched holes in your tank to skirt around your locking gas cap and drained your tank dry of its $20 a gallon contents.
And if your armor holds up, they still may get you as you drive out of the driveway and carjack you car to sell its gas.
The devil finds work for idle hands and when the low income people of the US can't buy gas to go to work and buy their fast food or smokes or alcohol to dull the pain...life in the US will get very ugly.
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