Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Quote:
Butter is not a traditional part of the Japanese diet, though it has become common since the 1960s, when westernisation of the Japanese diet increased the demand for milk and dairy products. Japan now consumes nearly 90 million tons each year, or about 0.8 kg per person. That is about a third of what Americans eat, and a tenth of the French or Germans.
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1458 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: The Spreading Food Crisis Thread
Ferretlover wrote:
Back on topic: Has anyone heard of people buying/hoarding rice, etc., for future black market sales? I had not yet considered this aspect--several commentators on CNBC were joking about buying pallets of rice to sell later.
I dont think its reasonable in US, unless you have significant industrial-type storage ability. But this had to be done years ago. I was paying 10 cents a kilo in Argentina 2002.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2691 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Food rationing in America
CNBC - squwak box this morning discussed Costco limiting purchases of flour, rice & cooking oil...They said tomorrow morning's show will be dedicated to food shortages/rationing. _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Quote:
The basic story line is familiar: a global surge in grain prices and animal feed, fueled by growing demand for meat and dairy in China and India, the trickle-down effect of corn-ethanol mandates in the U.S., and years of bad weather in key exporting nations such as Australia. But the trend poses particular challenges for an island nation that, in 2006, produced locally only 40 percent of the calories it consumed.
But there's an important twist. Just two years ago, a vast milk surplus in Japan forced local dairy farmers to literally pour raw milk down the drain and kill off excess dairy cows. According to the Asahi Shimbun, domestic production accounted for 86 percent of Japan's butter as recently as 2006, but after the painful resolution of the glut, butter production plunged.
The problem: You can pour milk down the drain in an instant, and kill off your herd of cows in a blink of eye. But you can't reverse the process so quickly. Building up a productive dairy herd takes years. The laws of supply and demand work slowly with food, a fact we sometimes forget in our ultra-instant-gratification society where a shortage of, for example, the most popular videogame machine at Christmas is seen as vile sin against fundamental consumer rights.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7018 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Food Rationing across NYC!
I'm no expert at anything, let alone economics but look at four stats from Wheat Associates:
World consumption up 12MMT
World export prices up 64%
US Wheat production up 7MMT
US Exports UP 10MMT
Take from that what you will... _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 276 Location: New Hampshire USA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
If you remember the movie "Jaws", there is a line I sometimes hear quoted from when the shark shows up. "Your gonna need a bigger boat"
Well, years ago I saw a comic strip that must have been inspired by that line. It was a small boat in the middle of the ocean, the boat is filled with rabbits, one of the rabbits has a caption that says. "We are gonna need a bigger boat". That comic seems to be a humorous way of warning people about the dangers of overshoot.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Quote:
For the next month try not to eat anything with butter/margarine in it, on it or cooked with it. You could take it a step further and do away with all dairy and pretend you’re lactose intolerant.
Good luck!
...straw man argument...
We have a readily available substitute for butter.
This substitute tastes the same, is far better for you, is less expensive, and less energy intensive. In fact, most people can't believe it's not butter.
As energy prices move up they will push up the price of the energy intensive goods faster than the less energy intensive goods. That pushes up butter prices faster than margarine prices.
By moving down the food chain I meant moving down the energy chain in terms of energy calories needed to make food calories.
Another good example would be chicken instead of beef. Beef cattle require more resources per calorie of food produced than chicken. Higher energy prices will push people further down the path of chicken>beef.
With regards to food consumption in the First World, Peak Oil is going to improve our health, not hurt it. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7018 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Food rationing in America
wisconsin_cur wrote:
Perhaps i'm being harsh. but we really do have to stop thinking like this is going to be like a hurricane or being snowed in for a week. We are talking about some hard core powerdown. not for a week, a month, a year or even a decade. Who knows how long it will take for our communities to reorganize themselves and for the cuture to adapt? It could be 30-40 years before we know what the new normal will work out to be.
We have to start thinking in larger time spans then we can hoard our way through. Then you know what absolute necessities to compile and what to leave for the last minute junkies.
Pops Five Rules:
Don't buy - Quit buying crap and learn to live on less.
Don't borrow - Get out of debt and stay out, things will go waay downhill before your creditors will quit looking for you - they will need income too and will always have the upper hand.
Don't specialize - Diversify your sources of income, it's easy to tell if your job will be hurt, but hard to be certain it won't.
Don't go hungry – Stock up and rotate necessities – not because they will become unavailable but because at some point (hopefully temporarily) you may not be able to afford them..
Don't be dependent - Try to become more independent from infrastructures of all kinds – especially those for which you have to pay.
I've already proven #3 needs revision and am thinking #4 may need it as well. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Tyler_JC wrote:
We have a readily available substitute for butter.
This substitute tastes the same, is far better for you, is less expensive, and less energy intensive. In fact, most people can't believe it's not butter.
You obviously don't do much cooking or baking. While the taste is similar, the science behind the two are different enough to make the food taste quite different. Try baking a pie crust with butter and another with margarine and see what tastes better. Saute some vegetables in butter vs margarine and note the difference here as well. Make a soup with vegetables and meat braised in butter vs margarine, and you'll see and taste the difference.
If you're talking about putting butter on a roll or piece or bread, then I agree it doesn't make much sense. To be honest, I actually prefer the taste of margarine or other vegetable/soy-based products to butter. I can certainly tell the difference, so cute marketing antics don't apply here. However, for most cooking/baking applications butter almost always gives better texture and flavor.
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Novus wrote:
Plenty of poor farmers around the world but they aren't going to be the ones starving and dying.
Actually history has shown that plenty of farmers can die of starvation. It usually involves the local power taking the harvest away. _________________ Fighting technobabble and Woo Woos.
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 3060 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
UncoveringTruths wrote:
Quote:
Butter is not a traditional part of the Japanese diet, though it has become common since the 1960s, when westernisation of the Japanese diet increased the demand for milk and dairy products. Japan now consumes nearly 90 million tons each year, or about 0.8 kg per person. That is about a third of what Americans eat, and a tenth of the French or Germans.
I thought this was pretty funny from the link you provided
Quote:
The blue eyes and “red” hair of westerners are attributes of goblins in Japanese folklore. They were appalled at the hairy, sweaty bodies that gave off a strong body odor due to a diet higher in animal fat. Those who did meet Europeans were disgusted by their stench: people who seldom touch animal products are extremely sensitive to the body-odor exuded by eaters of animal fat.
It was butter, the Japanese thought, which made Europeans so peculiarly rank: bata-kusai they called them (using the English word for the foul substance): “butter-stinkers." The terms Bata-kusai, “stinking of butter,” is still a derogatory term for things obnoxiously Western.
Butter-stinker So, naturally they started eating butter !
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Food rationing in America
RonMN wrote:
CNBC - squwak box this morning discussed Costco limiting purchases of flour, rice & cooking oil...They said tomorrow morning's show will be dedicated to food shortages/rationing.
This reminds me of the toilet paper shortage of December, 1973...
Johnny Carson makes a joke in a monologue about a shortage of toilet paper, people believe there is a shortage and go out to buy as much as they can, this CREATES an actual shortage, and people suddenly believe the shortage is getting worse.
It's a self fulfilling prophesy.
Eventually the stores will get refilled and life goes on.
Might make sense to buy extra food anyway.
Buying in bulk saves money and gives you peace of mind if you're in the doomer camp. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 639 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Prince wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:
We have a readily available substitute for butter.
This substitute tastes the same, is far better for you, is less expensive, and less energy intensive. In fact, most people can't believe it's not butter.
You obviously don't do much cooking or baking. While the taste is similar, the science behind the two are different enough to make the food taste quite different. Try baking a pie crust with butter and another with margarine and see what tastes better. Saute some vegetables in butter vs margarine and note the difference here as well. Make a soup with vegetables and meat braised in butter vs margarine, and you'll see and taste the difference.
If you're talking about putting butter on a roll or piece or bread, then I agree it doesn't make much sense. To be honest, I actually prefer the taste of margarine or other vegetable/soy-based products to butter. I can certainly tell the difference, so cute marketing antics don't apply here. However, for most cooking/baking applications butter almost always gives better texture and flavor.
And I also find olive oil works quite well. It gives another distinct taste that I enjoy. Applesauce works quite well as a low-fat substitue in some baking recipes which provide yet another distinct and enjoyable difference.
Japan's problem is that it imports a very high percentage of its food. This is unsustainable on so many different levels and even the slightest dislocation is going to cause problems. End of story. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Re: More food shortages, Japan is out of butter
Tyler_JC wrote:
Quote:
For the next month try not to eat anything with butter/margarine in it, on it or cooked with it. You could take it a step further and do away with all dairy and pretend you’re lactose intolerant.
Good luck!
...straw man argument...
We have a readily available substitute for butter.
This substitute tastes the same, is far better for you, is less expensive, and less energy intensive. In fact, most people can't believe it's not butter.
As energy prices move up they will push up the price of the energy intensive goods faster than the less energy intensive goods. That pushes up butter prices faster than margarine prices.
By moving down the food chain I meant moving down the energy chain in terms of energy calories needed to make food calories.
Another good example would be chicken instead of beef. Beef cattle require more resources per calorie of food produced than chicken. Higher energy prices will push people further down the path of chicken>beef.
With regards to food consumption in the First World, Peak Oil is going to improve our health, not hurt it.
I did include margarine in my statement. Ethanol is eating into margarine prices as well. I was not presenting an argument just thought it would be helpful to give it a try. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3899 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Food Rationing across NYC!
Nano wrote:
Like I said before: get real and try to feel some empathy with the 100 milion people who *really* are facing famine in this world instead of cringing and whining about nothing like some godforsaken miser..
Will empathy feed those 100 "milion" people? I think not. Are you personally shopping for food and distributing it to the needy in your country? Please share your experiences. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
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Butter-stinker 
So, naturally they started eating butter !
