Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
I just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.
And Mr. Palm oil biofuel man isn't here anymore I see.
Now I just want to say
NAFTA will destroy the economy.
If we are still here next year I will try and say told you so.
see you. _________________ ___________________________
WHEN THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND...GET OUT OF THE WAY!
Using evil to further good makes one evil
Doubt everything but the TRUTH
This posted information is not permissible to be used
by anyone who has ever met a lawyer
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4420 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
Huh?
NAFTA has been around for well over a decade and has been pretty successful.
Why will the effects of NAFTA suddenly cause economic hardship in the United States, Canada or Mexico? _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: May 08, 2007 Posts: 123 Location: Washington State
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
The only reason NAFTA didn't cause as much damage earlier is that bubbles propped up other areas of the economy. Bubbles that saw wages drop for a lot of us while bubble surfers got rich.
Those bubbles are gone now. _________________ An Optimist is eventually wrong, A Pessimist is eventually right.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
grabby wrote:
I just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.
Really? somebody actually disagreed with you on that point. And it was actually somebody worth saying "I told you so" to.
I thought the futility of biofuels was pretty well accepted around here
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3442 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
I actually found myself pondering a question I could not find an answer for the other day. If you take a handy chunk of California desert not too far inland from the Pacific and plant 1000 acre's of oil palms on it how much sea water would you have to desalinate to keep them properly watered? How much energy would it take to desalinate and move that much water to the plantation? Migfht be worth it if it means they will stop cutting down all the tropical rain forests to plant oil palms! _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
Tanada wrote:
I actually found myself pondering a question I could not find an answer for the other day. If you take a handy chunk of California desert not too far inland from the Pacific and plant 1000 acre's of oil palms on it how much sea water would you have to desalinate to keep them properly watered? How much energy would it take to desalinate and move that much water to the plantation? Migfht be worth it if it means they will stop cutting down all the tropical rain forests to plant oil palms!
It's not just the water it's also the fertility of the soil. (organic matter, nutrients, bugs, even microbes make a difference!) The amount of "fertility" a soil has greatly depends how much can grow in the area.
This is one of the reasons why for example there are dense forests near Seattle, Washington and just low level grass with only a few oak trees out near Savannah, Georgia.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 2956 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
Lorenzo popped by for a few weeks in Jan to deliver his negative entropy biofuels rap, then vanished again. I'm sure he'd tell you if you're looking for palm oil land there are millions of acres in the 3rd world to exploit which have lain fallow up to now due to depressed commodities prices. Etc.
NAFTA's done its damage already, haddnit? NAFTA 2.0 on the other hand...Maybe we (Nortenos) will get some oil quotas out of Mexico this time. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
I'm just gonna find a cash machine.
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
crabby wrote :
I just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.
My reply > I think Bio-Fuels is getting a bad rap about high food cost and shortages,, I think Big Oil is wanting to kill Bio-Fuels just like the Electric Car,, Did you know that when corn is made into Ethanol the mash is dried and sent back to the feed lots and feeds the animals,, its also a better feed after using it to make Ethanol,, Yes planting to much corn does cause a problem but what about Tobacco is this not a waste of land why not grow food why dont any one say Tobacco farmers are causeing a food shortage,, What about Coffee Bean farmers why not grow food,, [why],, Maybe its because world popualtion is growing very very fast [7 billon by 2015],, Very high cost of oil is the real problem not Bio-Fuels dont let this one get put under by big oil,, Better farm management needs to be done but dont kill or blame corn/soy bean farmers,, [Iowa has always been growing corn and soybeans],, Over the past 30-40 years we have paved over farm land and put up Condo's, Shopping Malls, Walmarts, Etc, Etc, Why not blame them,, [No its always Bio-Fuel that gets the BAD RAP]...............Learn the real problem and follow the Money,, Don't get your facts from the BIG CORP TV NEWS STATIONS...................
But, you know, it's not like anyone will be wanting to grow corn and soybeans in Iowa 100 years from now. By then we'll be living on Nanofood. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
timmac wrote:
crabby wrote:
I just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.
My reply > I think Bio-Fuels is getting a bad rap about high food cost and shortages,, I think Big Oil is wanting to kill Bio-Fuels just like the Electric Car,, Did you know that when corn is made into Ethanol the mash is dried and sent back to the feed lots and feeds the animals,, its also a better feed after using it to make Ethanol,, Yes planting to much corn does cause a problem but what about Tobacco is this not a waste of land why not grow food why dont any one say Tobacco farmers are causeing a food shortage,, What about Coffee Bean farmers why not grow food,, [why],, Maybe its because world popualtion is growing very very fast [7 billon by 2015],, Very high cost of oil is the real problem not Bio-Fuels dont let this one get put under by big oil,, Better farm management needs to be done but dont kill or blame corn/soy bean farmers,, [Iowa has always been growing corn and soybeans],, Over the past 30-40 years we have paved over farm land and put up Condo's, Shopping Malls, Walmarts, Etc, Etc, Why not blame them,, [No its always Bio-Fuel that gets the BAD RAP]...............Learn the real problem and follow the Money,, Don't get your facts from the BIG CORP TV NEWS STATIONS...................
LONDON, July 5 (Xinhua) -- A secret World Bank report has shown that biofuels have forced world food prices up by 75 percent, disputing U.S. President George W. Bush's claims that higher demand from India and China has led to higher food prices, according to a report issued in Friday's Guardian.
The report, which was completed in April and obtained by the Guardian newspaper, is based on the most detailed analysis of the food crisis conducted by Don Mitchell, a senior economist with the World Bank.
"Rapid income growth in developing countries has not led to large increases in global grain consumption and was not a major factor responsible for the large price increases," said the leaked report.
The 75-percent figure sharply contradicted the claims by the U.S. government that biofuels contribute less than 3 percent to food price hikes.
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: TOLD YOU SO fuel from food
yeahbut wrote :
A secret World Bank report has shown that biofuels have forced world food prices up by 75 percent, disputing U.S. President George W. Bush's claims that higher demand from India and China has led to higher food prices, according to a report issued in Friday's Guardian.
My Reply :
So explain this one many farmers have switch over to grow corn for higher price for demand of Ethanol,, but no corn is wasted they just use it for its sugar and such for Ethanol and grains are than dried and sent/sold to cattle and pig feed lots, same amount as if it was not used to make Ethanol, however the corn grain is now a better feed because cattle can now diegest it better, [fact], so with the glut of corn feed would'nt meat pices go down,, NO it to has increase alot in price, WHY because of places like China and India where there wages have increased so has there meat in take and so has the size of there portain of food as well, the more you make the more you eat, [fact],, bad weather in other parts of the world has slow downed farm production and higher much higher cost of fuel to grow and transport food is rising food prices alot,, I will agree that all farmers switching to corn to make Ethanol is not a good idea but to just blame the Ethanol as the only problem is stupid and lame,, Why not stop all the tobacco farmers that waste land and fuel for cancer sticks why is that not in there report,, how about coffee bean farmers as well, do we need $5.00 coffee at StarBucks, why not more food from these farmers, lets also stop selling farm land to put up parking lots, condos, shopping malls, why was this not in there report, [why], it was only the Bio-Fuels that they blamed,, I will bet you $100.00 that the report was made by big exec bankers that are making HUGE profits off there oil stock and want to make sure that people blame someone else and not there BILLION $$ wages,, [Follow the Money],, Many factors are causing food shortage not just one,, [7 Billion People by 2015, UN Report].......................
But, you know, it's not like anyone will be wanting to grow corn and soybeans in Iowa 100 years from now. By then we'll be living on Nanofood.
That's right Ludi. When we get fusion power we can manufacture food from atmospheric nitrogen.
Then bioengineered bacteria will convert N2 into amino acids, so food technologist can transform them into an assortment of nutritious protein snacks for the kids. And then the kids will be thermaldepolymerized into motor oil. Future fun! _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Last edited by pstarr on Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
