Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Practical Solar Thermal power plants
sicophiliac wrote:
Maybe our saving grace will be spiking electricity prices that will eventually start to follow high oil prices? I mean if plug in/electric cars start to come online that will push demand higher vs the already strained supply..
Only if we all charge our cars during a one or two hour timer period during peak demand in summer. We have more than enough off-peak load available.
sicophiliac wrote:
hopefully we could drive up the cost of electricity and make things like solar thermal more economical. Or why not a nice carbon tax on the coal plants to level the playing field. I mean oil prices are up 6 fold in the past 7 years, its not like paying 2-3 times more for electricity is going to kill anybody.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Solar Thermal power plants
yesplease wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:
Heat storage allows a solar thermal plant to produce energy at night or overcast days. The advantage is that the power generation becomes reliable and the utility can sell this higher quality product for higher prices. Also, the utilization of the generator is higher which reduces cost. The general principle is to transfer the heat to a substance which can hold the heat with a high energy density.
That being said, since solar thermal tends to mirror electricity demand via the amount of solar energy received, there isn't much in the way of planned storage since it has to compete with far cheaper off peak sources, as opposed to a conventional CSP plant generation methods that compete with peaker plants that cost much more per kWh.
Wikipedia wrote:
The PS10 solar power tower stores heat in tanks as pressurized steam at 50 bar and 285C. The steam condenses and flashes back to steam, when pressure is lowered. Storage is for one hour. It is suggested that longer storage is possible, but that has not been proven yet in an existing power plant.
In other words, it's possible, but isn't done due to costs.
Interesting information - thanks. I don't know why anyone would consider any type of storage in this type of plant: there's no real need and I would imagine that sizing generation equipment for max capability is cheaper than providing storage. As you state, there's cheaper sources for off-peak power and a ready market for whatever they can produce. This is analogous to the grid-tied PV system. There's no real need for batteries except as personal backup in case of localized outages. (Having said this, our PV system is grid-tied and we have batteries. They don't get used much any more but it sure is nice when we do need them!)
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 321 Location: Holland, United Kingdom (of the seven Netherlands)
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: Re: Practical Solar Thermal power plants
If you can continue to run at peak capacity when the sun is going down (during the late afternoon), you are still at peak prices. And you do not only save on investment on the generator, but also on the required grid capacity expansion.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3450 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Practical Solar Thermal power plants
Gerben wrote:
If you can continue to run at peak capacity when the sun is going down (during the late afternoon), you are still at peak prices. And you do not only save on investment on the generator, but also on the required grid capacity expansion.
On the other hand the more competing sources you have availible at peak demand the less valuable any individual source becomes and the less money each source can charge in order to sell power. No point in generating it if no-one is buying, so you have to be cost competitive or the market has to be source constrained in order for you to sell. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
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