Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2678 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
The Chinese are hurrying like hell, but there are so many of them, so much power is needed... They have added several hundred GW's of coal power the last few years, so even 10 GW of nuclear per year would be chump change. But a bonus is that all the nukes are built on the power hungry coast while the coal is mined and shipped by train from the inland. The Chinese rail system is overloaded and about 50 % used for coal shipping. Nukes at the coast will reduce pressure on the reailroads.
_________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
Is that suppose to be 6 EPR reactors?
6 x 1.6 GW == 9.6 GW
Shooting from the hip, I read somewhere it would cost about $2 Trillion to replace the entire US electric system. That includes both the grid and also the power plants assuming all plants are replaced with nuclear. I'm not sure how accurate that figure is but at least it gives a rough idea of how much a nation must invest in it's infrastructure if it aspires to become a world superpower.
BTW I heard that China's "water situation" is so bad it makes it's electricity woes look like a walk in the park.
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
Quote:
They need to get the hell moving on pebble bed nukes. I first read about them spearheading this at least 4-5 years ago.
They've been doing that, more traditional gen 3 nuke plants, hydro, solar, wind, as fast as they can but it isn't enough to break the rein of old king coal. If all else fails they can still buy some from the US.
One interesting note is they have a research program on manufacturing hydrogen in large quantities using heat from the pebble beds. A friend of mine got accepted to Qinghua (albeit not studying nukes, but still), the university this research is being conducted at, so sometime at the end of the year I'll hopefully be able to find how it is progressing.
Quote:
They need to get their god damn bikes back out and head back to the countryside where they came from to farm and eat bugs.
Yeah, how dare they want a better way of life, how dare they try to have what is our birthright and what only we deserve. This is rediculous.
Quote:
The sooner they run out of coal the sooner the Chinese economy collapses and affects the rest of the world in a big way.
People have been saying over and over and over for as long as I can remember "China's economy will collapse". My bet this latest prediction will be just like the prediction that said it would collapse when China joined the WTO. And of course these prophets are never called to task when they're wrong.
Come on, I think they earned more credit than you're giving them.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
thor wrote:
joeltrout wrote:
Don't expect cheap Chinese products at your local store in the future.
The cheap crap from China is overrated. I for one could live without it.
I think having cheap Chinese products on our stores is a good thing for competition. Competition 99.9999% lowers prices. Many people dont know a good product from a bad product and will usually buy whichever is cheaper especially during tough times. See Walmart shares of stock. One of the few retailers doing well right now.
As a result of cheap Chinese products, well-made products are forced to lower their prices in order to be competitive. The one exception is those products that are specialty products.
Since China is running out of cheap energy I believe that they will begin increasing the prices of their goods and then other good makers can also increase their prices as long as their is demand. Most goods from China are everday goods so demand will continue as long as people are able.
In my mind, China with a shortage of energy equals an increase in the price of imports to places like the US which results in overall price increases.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
outcast wrote:
Quote:
They need to get the hell moving on pebble bed nukes. I first read about them spearheading this at least 4-5 years ago.
They've been doing that, more traditional gen 3 nuke plants, hydro, solar, wind, as fast as they can but it isn't enough to break the rein of old king coal. If all else fails they can still buy some from the US.
One interesting note is they have a research program on manufacturing hydrogen in large quantities using heat from the pebble beds. A friend of mine got accepted to Qinghua (albeit not studying nukes, but still), the university this research is being conducted at, so sometime at the end of the year I'll hopefully be able to find how it is progressing.
Quote:
They need to get their god damn bikes back out and head back to the countryside where they came from to farm and eat bugs.
Yeah, how dare they want a better way of life, how dare they try to have what is our birthright and what only we deserve. This is rediculous.
Yes it is. It's nobodys birthright. What we deserve is to be reigned in before we utterly destroy what's left of the global ecosystem. We all need to get on our bikes and shut down globalalised industrial agriculture. It's going to happen one way or another.
Quote:
Quote:
The sooner they run out of coal the sooner the Chinese economy collapses and affects the rest of the world in a big way.
People have been saying over and over and over for as long as I can remember "China's economy will collapse". My bet this latest prediction will be just like the prediction that said it would collapse when China joined the WTO. And of course these prophets are never called to task when they're wrong.
Different people are saying it now and for different reasons. The economic argument was always flawed due to the nature of the structural imbalances in the global economy. The ecological and resource limits are another matter. How anyone can dismiss what's happening at the moment is beyond me!?
Quote:
Come on, I think they earned more credit than you're giving them.
Earned credit? By emulating the mistakes of the West? Oh yeah, they've earned credit!
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: China down to 12 days worth of coal.
Quote:
We all need to get on our bikes and shut down globalalised industrial agriculture. It's going to happen one way or another.
For the most part chinese agriculture isn't industrialized, although granted they have had use fertilizers. A lot of the farm labor is done the old fashioned way. Lots of food in china is grown locally, and in cities often most people get their food fresh from farmers markets.
Quote:
The ecological and resource limits are another matter. How anyone can dismiss what's happening at the moment is beyond me!?
True, and I'm not dismissing it, but who says they can't buy some from other countries (ie. russia, the US, etc) if it gets really desperate?
Quote:
Earned credit? By emulating the mistakes of the West? Oh yeah, they've earned credit!
True, they have made mistakes, but can you name a country that has gotten rich without industrializing? Not counting the resource exporters that is.
Don't forget, public transportation and bicycles are still the main way to get around.
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This is rediculous.
That's terrible!
