Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Upstate New York, U.S.A.
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
Well, some of the things I would be looking to be able to do would be:
1) Hauling logs and sections from downed trees or cut lumber. Primarily looking at for firewood.
2) Could be used for tilling or perhaps planting down the road as garden plans could expand (though I keep thinking about low oil ways to do these things). Where I live right now, I have a 40' X 30' produce garden. I could see doubling that on the new land immediately, and like keeping my options open for it expanding significantly more. I currently have a pretty good Troy-Built walk behind tiller.
3) Moving some dirt. Pond, drainage, trench digging, some moderate landscaping. The more I think about it, I'd like to have a professionals eye in mind for creating the driveway. I want to make sure that it is designed in such a way as to consider appropriate drainage and slope. The driveway will extend a good 300'+ up to where we think we want to build the house. Gravel/crushed stone is all we are thinking for it at this point.
4) We'll likely consider incorporating some livestock down the road. Chickens and sheep come immediately to mind but that is very preliminary. A tractor I am sure could come in handy a few different ways with regard to livestock.
5) Moving snow in the winter.
That's all I'm coming up with so far.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 707 Location: northern California
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
If you're buying this property with an eye to the future, it doesn't make sense to buy into the past--I mean with heavy equipment. I've had some excavation and road building done here and the professional I hired was so good that it was difficult to imagine it being less expensive for me to purchase, learn to use, and maintain the same equipment. Then when his flatbed hauler broke down and he had to run for parts just to remove his equipment, I knew it was a good deal for me. My neighbor rented a bobcat to do some ditch digging, various work and ran it himself. He ended up spending over $1,000 for 1/2 the work my guy did for $500. Heineken's right, a little quad with trailer is more than sufficient for those ongoing chores like firewooding. My old Toyota 4wd truck doubles as farm tractor, even for discing the roadbed, dragging it, hauling firewood, you name it. Then it goes 60 on the highway--amazing. _________________ "I believe that a wise Vermonter lives more by lack of expense rather than from income."--some Dartmouth professor from across the river
Additionally, I am awaiting my order of 250 Scotch Pines - 12" seedlings.
Planning to order in the vicinity of:
20 Black Walnut
10 American Hazlenut
10 Butternut
20 Black Cherry
10 Apple (Red Jonathon maybe)
5 pear (Kieffer maybe)
There are lots of opportunities for transplanting a number of seedlings already on the property as well, particularly Sugar Maples.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
Olaf, make sure you plant at least two varieties of apples and that they are capable of cross-pollinating (i.e., that their period of flowering overlaps). Otherwise you won't get a crop. (Offhand I don't know about pears, but the same probably applies.)
Consider adding more bona fide food-producing nut trees to your plantings. Especially, grafted trees, which produce better-quality nuts and do so much sooner. Check out this source for ideas and info.:
In future, I'd plant smaller tree seedlings. Large seedlings cost more and might actually have a higher failure rate. Small seedlings are much easier and quicker to plant. They catch up quickly in size to the larger, more expensive seedlings.
Prune your hardwood seedlings as you plant them. Don't be shy about making them shorter---they'll make a better start if you increase the ratio of roots to stem. Prune them all back to whips (no branches), with the leader cut at an angle just above a nice fat bud.
I agree with Dune that buying heavy equipment can be a mistake (good comments, Dune). You often find yourself "buying a problem" or at least wasting money. Rent or hire for specific jobs.
Yes, hire somebody to bulldoze your road and then have somebody spread gravel, first a large-size gravel and then something smaller to fill in the "pores." That way it packs tightly. A road takes time to settle in; you might have to add more gravel later on. Gravel has become horribly expensive, BTW.
Since you're so far north, I wouldn't put the house too far back from the paved road.
Many of the gardeners here think rototilling is a poor way to garden (Ludi educated me on this). You don't need a tractor for that, and you don't need a tractor for livestock (certainly not for chickens, goats, or sheep---they are tractors themselves!).
I'd wait a good spell---a couple years---before even thinking about buying a tractor. Do you really want to invest a huge portion of your capital in a device that has so dubious a future?
Don't take on too many projects at once. Let things evolve.
All I can think of at the moment. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
If Maples will grow well on your site why not plant all Sugar (Hard) Maples? If nothing else with a good stand of hard maple you can make some maple syrup if the need arises.
It did seem to me that your mix of trees was heavy on softwoods when, if you are in NY as I recall, hardwoods should do well.
I'm a bit like the other posters, I'd be looking for fruit trees, and also planting whatever kinds of berries do well. If there is no emergency you will always enjoy being able to go out to the farm and gather some fruits for fun.
Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Upstate New York, U.S.A.
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
We are trying to establish a good mix of hardwood and softwood, both for use and habitat.
There will be alot more trees getting planted. This is just phase one and incorporates several areas we are trying to establish as eventual wind breaks and screening. We have plans to plant way more maples (especially sugar) and other hardwoods (black cherry, red oak). There are an unbeleivable amount of blackberry vines all over the place already, but I'll be putting in blueberry bushes at minimum as well.
More fruit trees nut trees will also come into play.
Don't want to order more trees than I can get in the ground at first.
I'll look more into the apples and pears Heineken, thanks.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6426 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
TreeFarmer wrote:
If Maples will grow well on your site why not plant all Sugar (Hard) Maples? If nothing else with a good stand of hard maple you can make some maple syrup if the need arises.
I agree. I tend to view red maples as weed trees. They outcompete better species and produce lousy lumber and cruddy firewood. When you cut one down, you never see the end of the damn stump sprouts.
I'd love to have some sugar maples, but they can't take our heat. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Heineken, you might want to look into Bigtooth Maple Acer grandidentatum which is classed as a subspecies of Sugar Maple by some botanists. I hope eventually to plant some Bigtooth Maple, but have not got around to it yet... _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Well, took a half today at work today and spent another 3 hours walking the property and taking GPS coordinates at each corner. I will be able to process these points so that they are probably within 2 feet of actual survey point. Close enough for government work! Will help me find the stakes again if I lose track of them, plus gives me a mapping dataset I can work with in my GIS.
Met two of the neighbors. One seems quite nice. I'm hoping the other won't be problem. It seems the guy that lives there is related to the previous owner and seemed surprised that it had been purchased. The other neighbor told me that this gentleman frequently used his 4 wheeler on the property as well as hunted on it (which I won't be initially allowing). His parcel is completely contained by my parcel and he only has about an acre or so. Didn't seem to really want to talk to me. I'm guessing he figures his time on that land is coming to an end and isn't pleased about it.
Hopefully I don't piss off the neighbors too much.
The first neighbor I met was just happy we aren't subdividing it.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
The unpleasant neighbor's acre is completely enclosed within your 50 acres? That seems like a peculiar and potentially troublesome situation. I assume he has a legal right-of-way across your land?
I personally would find that arrangement intolerable (not the right-of-way so much, but that fact that he actually resides, on a tiny island, within your land). Maybe you can buy him out, Olaf. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Heineken, you might want to look into Bigtooth Maple Acer grandidentatum which is classed as a subspecies of Sugar Maple by some botanists. I hope eventually to plant some Bigtooth Maple, but have not got around to it yet...
It'd be an interesting experiment, Ludi. Entirely an alien tree in these parts.
A small tree or shrub---probably of limited value for syrup making or lumber, but a great firewood source.
Attractive foliage. Drought tolerant. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 09, 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Upstate New York, U.S.A.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
Heineken wrote:
The unpleasant neighbor's acre is completely enclosed within your 50 acres? That seems like a peculiar and potentially troublesome situation. I assume he has a legal right-of-way across your land?
I personally would find that arrangement intolerable (not the right-of-way so much, but that fact that he actually resides, on a tiny island, within your land). Maybe you can buy him out, Olaf.
I should have been a bit more specific. His west, north, and south lines are bounded by me. He then has probably 200 feet or so of road frontage...in fact, let me go look at my survey map...he has 170 feet of road frontage. Across the street (east side) is me again. So while it is not a 'landlocked parcel', my property is all around him.
I am just speculating at this point about him being difficult, but I didn't come away with a warm fuzzy after my brief interaction with him. He and his wife were out doing yard work while I was collecting the angle points, and when I tried to talk to them, they wouldn't even walk over to talk to me up close, and I didn't feel I should go trapsing across their yard. At the point I thought we would have a more in depth conversation, they simply went back to doing what they were doing and paid me no more mind.
Olaf _________________ "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
Olaf
They might just be anti-social types who just keep to themselves. If that is the case they might never be very neighborly or a problem.
On the other hand, they might have thought of your land as "theirs" as far as access and not like the idea of losing that access.
You'll just have to see how it plays out. I would say be nice and see what happens but, if they try to take advantage of you be extremely firm and let them know that is not going to happen and then never give an inch.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3583 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
Olaf wrote:
My wife and I put a bid on a piece of property. Offers and counter -offers ensued, and then...nothing. No movement for 6 months. ... This eases my stress significantly when it comes to preparations. At last. Olafr
\
Oh, be Quiet! I am sooooo jealous of you and everyone else here who has a farm, I could just SPIT! _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6426 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.
TreeFarmer wrote:
Olaf
They might just be anti-social types who just keep to themselves. If that is the case they might never be very neighborly or a problem.
On the other hand, they might have thought of your land as "theirs" as far as access and not like the idea of losing that access.
You'll just have to see how it plays out. I would say be nice and see what happens but, if they try to take advantage of you be extremely firm and let them know that is not going to happen and then never give an inch.
TF
A perfect analysis, TF.
Olaf, I'm glad to hear that that boundary situation is much better than I'd feared.
I have a similar "pimple" on one side of my small farm. Near our entrance is a small, strangely shaped scrap of land (maybe 0.4 acre) owned by some character who lives up in Washington. We share 200 feet of border with it. Our driveway passes by it for a short distance.
He comes down about once a year and camps there overnight and drinks a prodigious amount of beer (leaving the cans behind in a pile, along with other trash). He had some sort of dispute with my Dad (now no longer on the scene). Last year he drove up to our house drunk and raving about some letters they apparently exchanged long ago. He was so full of hatred for me (who had hardly even met him) that he clearly wanted to punch me in the mouth. I have no idea what his complaint was!
All our other neighbor situations are pretty good. The 7.2-acre lot on the north side is owned by some distant investor, who never visits and just holds on to the place, decade after decade. The loooong back border abuts with many hundreds of acres of timber company land (timber outfits make great neighbors!). The southern border is shared with neutral-to-friendly neighbors (21 acres) who value privacy. There is one other neighbor who lives fairly quietly in a manufactured house on 1.5 acres; I've never met him/her/them. Once in a great while he shoots guns and bottle rockets.
Neighbors come with the territory, literally. I used to get upset by occasional noises, gunfire, dirtbike howls, whatever, but now I tune that stuff out just say to myself "I can control only what happens on my own land." _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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