Land! Finally.

Olaf · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

Well, I'm over at a friends house taking a break from planting. Marked out an area for about 100 trees with flags and then got about 20 trees in the ground so far.

Actually had a full discussion with the man I was worried as being the potential problem neighbor. He mentioned that he had tree stands on it it and that he would take them off within the next few days. I simply stated that I would appreciate that. Worked well, didn't have to ask him to do it. His brother-in-law is the one that sold me the land. He also has some old junk equipment and such right on the property line that he mentioned he would be cleaning up. So it couldn't have worked out much better in that respect. I'm sure he hoped he might still have access, but appears to have been prepared not to.

Planting is going a little slower than I hoped, but with a two man team we are getting about 7 trees done an hour. Not wire enclosed yet.

Olaf
_________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau

Heineken · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

That's great, Olaf (about the neighbor). It is so much better to get along than to have an "enemy." I'll jump through hoops to avoid making an enemy of a neighbor. On my right-of-way across the dairy farm into my tree farm, I have to stop my truck twice and unhook (and then rehook) electric fencing he has crossing the road. It's a real pain, but I'd never think of complaining to the farmer about it (much less failing to execute my little duty).

Planting hardwoods is a lot of work, isn't it? I've found I can't use a planting bar.
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"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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TreeFarmer · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 326

Olaf, you could work with the guy and let him kill a deer or two off of your property in exchange for some Venison. I'm sure he would jump at that. Who knows, maybe you can build a stand for two and he can show you how to kill deer if you don't have any experience.

The deer will be eating YOUR plants, you might as well eat them in return.

TF

Olaf · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

I hunt deer and turkey myself. No deals required. Smile

Olaf
_________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau

Heineken · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

Olaf, I can identify with your current need to assert your ownership over that land.

After I bought my tree farm (a year ago), I was stunned to drive down there and see that the former owner (the dairy farmer) had planted corn in a seven-acre field on my property. He had done this around the time of closing (done by mail), and the corn was already a foot or two tall.

I was working on a trail when the farmer came barrelling up in a Ram pickup truck. He got out of the truck, a huge man, and we met for the first time. He asked me if I'd be willing to lease the field back to him for cropping. I said no, I had other plans for it (although, at the time, I actually didn't have any firm plans for it). The extra income would have been useful, but I thought it far more important to send him a message that it wasn't his land anymore.

However, I told him he was welcome to proceed with his corn crop on MY land, this last time. What else could I do?

He wasn't particularly friendly, but he wasn't unpleasant either. Just businesslike. I'd been hoping he'd be a real nice guy who'd invite his new neighbor to dinner. Fat chance.

I've since built a gate across the road that leads to the field, put up some "private property" signs, and planted the field in 3,000 loblolly pine seedlings. He knows it's mine now!
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

TreeFarmer · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 326

Heineken why did you plant loblolly? Will Longleaf not grow where you are? Longleaf is a much superior tree in the long run.

TF

Heineken · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

Good question, TreeFarmer.

Actually I seriously considered longleaf. The county forester I worked with had mixed feelings about this, since the county my tree farm is in (Nottoway) is slightly north and west of longleaf's natural range. During my discussions with him about this matter, however, an announcement was made that old longleaf stumps had been discovered on a farm north of my Nottoway place, in Powhatan County. This was the first direct evidence of longleaf's former presence in so northwesterly a location.

The forester then attempted to procure longleaf seedlings for me but was unable to do so despite sending out calls all over the state and beyond. It's a shame, since the soil in the field is ideal for longleaf (sandy loam).

Longleaf as you know is very difficult and slow to establish, but I was willing to put forth the effort.

I also considered shortleaf, which also produces superior wood and would have added biodiversity. However, shortleaf is probably the most attractive species to the Southern pine beetle, and is quite vulnerable to littleleaf disease in plantation settings.

So I "devolved" to the loblolly decision. The later generations have improved wood quality (finer grain), and these trees grow like gangbusters, which is a consideration for me at age 52.

I have begun to and will continue to interplant or encourage other species among the loblollies. For example, I've already planted a smattering of cherrybark oak among them.

By the time I'm done it will be a mixed forest.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

Olaf · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

Well, to sort of summarize my weekend.

The tree planting is taking way longer by hand than I anticipated. There are lots of brambles and various clearing that needs to be done while going about the process which obviously slows things down significantly. Friday afternoon I spent a few hours taking GPS points of the property line. Saturday spent a few hours planting with the help of a friend. Was on the property by myself at 7:30 Sunday morning and planted until about 6PM. My wife and a friend came in around noon on Sunday so there were three of us from that point on. In total I would say we got 85 trees in the ground.

The one neighbor and his brother came out on a 4 wheeler on Sunday and were taking down tree stands. Met my other bounding neighbor, an older country hunter type guy that goes by the name of 'Rabbit'. Seemed friendly enough offering deer butchering services (which could actually be very convenient). He was a talker. Smile

Hung around for a good 40 minutes shooting the breeze.

We are getting some much needed rain this week, which will help my fresh plantings, but combined with cooling off as well (it has been unseasonably warm here the last 2 weeks) will hinder the rate of my progress of getting the rest of the trees in. I'll do what I can.

My education begins. Smile

Olaf
_________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau

TreeFarmer · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 326

For that many hardwoods, if its going that slowly, a small tractor and an auger like you use for fence posts would be nice. Drill a quick hole, pop in a tree and move on.

Slowly you'll morph the place into what you want it to be.

TF

Olaf · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

I think part of the problem has been my methodolgy. In my desire to ensure maximum survival for the trees, I have been creating an area about 1' X 1.5' and clearing it of the sod and root sytem (about 4 inches deep I would say). Next, in the center of that I have been digging out a slightly deeper area for the seedling roots. After covering the roots for each tree I have been putting in some of that black garden plastic sheeting (about a 1 foot square) to act as a root barrier covering that with a small amount of soil. I shake out the sod squares that I pull up to put as much dirt back in the hole as I can.

What I may end up doing for expediency is simply doing the shovel plunge, lean forward, lean back, add seedling, tamp down and go. I worry more obviously about competition and survival success with that method though.

Olaf
_________________
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Henry David Thoreau

Ludi · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

Personally I wouldn't use the plastic, because it blocks rain from getting to that area, also it won't decompose but will work its way to the surface, break up, and appear who knows where on your place. If you want a weed barrier around the trees, some straw mulch or woodchips might be better. Grass is the enemy of baby trees, so its a good idea to keep the trees mulched for the first few years of life until they can outgrow the grass.
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Heineken · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

One square foot of weed mat (as it's called) is not big enough, Olaf.

Ludi is right: definitely don't use black plastic sheeting!

I buy 100-foot rolls of 3-foot-wide weed matting and cut them into 3-foot lengths. The resulting 9 square feet is just right for suppressing weeds around a tree seedling.

The stuff I buy is sort of a heavy-duty, plastic-impregnated black paper. It's perforated to allow water to soak through. Over a period of years it does break up into smaller pieces, but I'm sure it will take quite a while to fully disappear. Periodically I pick up and dispose of old pieces I see lying around.

They sell metal stakes to hold the weed matting down, but I avoid them since one day they will inevitably find their way into my mower, or maybe through my shoe and into my foot. Instead, I use soil (wheelbarrowed in) to hold down the edges of the weed mat. It's a lot of work but provides a permanent solution to the weed problem for a given seedling.

Or, if the seedling will become a "food tree" or is special in some other way, I place a protective wire cage around the seedling and this holds down the weed mat.

Biodegradable stakes are available, but they last only about two years and I don't think that's quite long enough.

I have seen grass push staked weed matting aside; another reason why I like my "soil system" for holding it in place. It seals in the grass and kills it.

You don't necessarily need weed mats for conifers. Conifers (unlike many broad-leafed trees) compete quite well with grass. In an open-field setting, careful mowing will do the job.

The strategy will vary depending on the setting and the number and type of seedlings. Each solution has pros and cons.

Another tip: If the root system of a seedling is extensive, trim the roots with scissors. Don't try to pack all those roots into a small hole.

And, as I said before, prune hardwood seedlings to whips.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

davep · Expert Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 1254 Location: Europe

I use cardboard and compost. It's cheap, biodegradeable and effective.
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All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha

topcat · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.

I have not kept up with all of the posts here, so please pardon me if the following random thoughts have been mentioned earlier.

Look into the local and state regs. Is there a county/township zoning resolution? Land use map? Building code?

If so, get copies. Also, the county should have topo maps of the area and your land. They may also have aierals (our county does). Get those too.

Check into property taxes, more specifically, look into CAUV. "Cuurent Ag Use Valuation" and also 'Ag Districts.' The CAUV will lower prop taxes, which may be low now but could increase. (Here, you can be CAUV without farming, you just need at least ten acres.)

It has been quite a while since I put our place in an Ag Dist, so I cannot recall all of the pro's & con's but the one thing I do remember, I learned the hard way. IF we had been enrolled as an Ag Dist, when the water line went in, we would not have had to pay the assessment. (Around 600' of frontage ain't cheap.) Now that we are, if we ever get sewer, we should not have to pony up for that.

Check on the details, if either program is available. Not sure what happens when you discontinue your enrollment(s). With CAUV, I DO know that if/when you change out, you are responsible for several back years of tax savings. I am certain there are some hooks buried in the Ag Dist program too.

Tractors were mentioned a while back. Think it was Treefarmer? that spoke of a Ford 4600? We have an older Ford 4000 SU. Love it!

Well built, easy to get at almost everything, parts easily available (takes the same oil filter as my F-250 PU), easy on & off (very important to me), enough hp for a 2 or 3 bottom plow, loaders are available, and small enough that I have used it to bushhog our front yard once when the lawn tractor broke.

Enough for now.

Two Cents from TC.
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Heineken · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Land! Finally.