Joined: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: South of the Mason Dixon Line
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Very Disturbing
Sorry if this is not in the correct discussion area. I have been visiting this forum for a few years, mostly as an information gathering source, not so much on the participation level. I have gained some knowledge of what is happening to our world due to the effects of PO and other activities that we have ALL inflicted on the planet/society thanks to many contributors to the forum. I just watched the video below and truly feel very sick to my stomach. Sure, some of you have probably watch this and have opinions, I just wanted to share this and hopefully get some feedback from how others interpret the information presented. I believe there are many things developing to create the perfect storm we all read and some speak of.
After watching this video, I finally realize what "us" Americans have done to really screw things up. I now understand what part we continue to be in propagating the continuation of this process. Personally I am going to do what ever it takes to try to make a difference while the same time preparing myself and family for the times ahead. Again, I am very interested in what a bunch of intelligent thoughtful people think of this content. Thanks in advance for the sharing of information.
Joined: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: South of the Mason Dixon Line
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
Cashmere, Great name by the way,
Not concerned about labels, as it appears that process has begun on many levels. And my statement is far from being unpatriotic, I love and care for my country and what it was suppose to represent. If being a traitor is standing up to the manipulations of the last century by a few greedy power hungry entities, then it appears now is the time for people to mobilize into action. There are more and more people out there willing to stand up, not crackpots mind you. The people are truly the answer, not running away or complaining or hypothesizing over what is happening, but we need to begin doing something to help stop the direction we currently head . A handful of greedy evil people began this march, the masses can stop it. Just look at history. By sharing facts and truth to all, even "sheeple" can affect true change.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
I swear to god, some moron could make a video about how there's no law against raping children, post it on youtube, and you people would believe it. _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
By the way, if you're having a hard time finding the law that requires you to pay income taxes, Try 26USC1 link
Granted it's an evil law, but it clearly is the law. _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
smallpoxgirl wrote:
By the way, if you're having a hard time finding the law that requires you to pay income taxes, Try 26USC1 link
Granted it's an evil law, but it clearly is the law.
True, but it's also unconstitutional. It's in direct violation of the 10th amendment. Of course, good luck having that position upheld in court...Wars have begun that way. _________________ I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun *YOU*.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
Dreamtwister wrote:
True, but it's also unconstitutional. It's in direct violation of the 10th amendment. Of course, good luck having that position upheld in court...Wars have begun that way.
The 16th amendment violates the 10th amendment? Yeah...good luck with that in court. _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
smallpoxgirl wrote:
Dreamtwister wrote:
True, but it's also unconstitutional. It's in direct violation of the 10th amendment. Of course, good luck having that position upheld in court...Wars have begun that way.
The 16th amendment violates the 10th amendment? Yeah...good luck with that in court.
That's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter that the 16th amendment was improperly ratified. It doesn't matter that the version of the 16th amendment currently in the constitution is not the version that was ratified. It doesn't matter that the tax is progressive and therefore unconstitutional. It doesn't matter that 14th amendment was improperly ratified.
None of that matters, because the federal government says it doesn't matter, and any state who doesn't tow the line is punished. _________________ I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun *YOU*.
Joined: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: South of the Mason Dixon Line
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
smallpoxgirl wrote:
By the way, if you're having a hard time finding the law that requires you to pay income taxes, Try 26USC1 link
Granted it's an evil law, but it clearly is the law.
Look again, that is a "code" not a law (ie USC, C meaning code not law). I challenge you to find the LAW that makes that code constitutional and enforcable. It also says "taxable income" do you know what that means? If not, I would suggest you look into the actual meaning of taxable income. It has NOTHING to do with your salary or wages derived by labor.
As a moderator it is disappointing that you can refer to legitimate information sharing as "morons" believing in sitcoms. Maybe you should take the 1 1/2 hour break from your day to sit and thoughtfully look at the info that is readily available for review in that video.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2626 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
In addition to my responsibilities here, I am a tax attorney, and ALL arguments about the legality/constitutionality/morality of the income tax are a complete waste of your time and energy.
Much better to hire someone who understands how the system ACTUALLY works, rather than someone who understands how it SHOULD work.
I'm not commenting on whether any of the tax protest movements' arguments are interesting or not, I'm just saying that you shouldn't test an anti-gravity device by jumping off the top of a building.
Focus on what works.
***
FYI, "USC", or United States Code, is where the federal laws appear after being passed by Congress and signed by the President. The USC publishing methodology allows, among other things, acts of Congress that impact different existing laws to basically amend existing section of the United States Code, rather than adding on to the list of federal laws endlessly.
You may also notice that any public law will have different section references than the USC reference. This is because section 1 of the 2008 FREEDOM ACT may actually be an amendment to 29 USC 312 (I just made that up).
When you see "CFR", that is a reference to the Code of Federal Regulations. These are the rules that the applicable federal agencies charged with enforcing federal laws write in the process of figuring out how to interpret an act of Congress that is within their enforcement jurisdiction.
For the IRS, there is the Internal Revenue Code, which is a portion of the United States Code, and then there are the Income Tax Regulations prepared by the Treasury Department. In addition to the law and the regulations, there is a whole galaxy of guidance, interpretations, rulings, opinions, and other views that come from the IRS regarding the proper answer to a given tax question.
On the judicial side, tax cases can be heard in either federal court of in the Tax Court, depending upon how the dispute arises. Either court is going to give a lot of deference to the Internal Revenue Code, the Income Tax Regulations and will give varying degrees of deference to other pieces of IRS guidance.
I hope that helps clarify how some of the tax system rules work.
One of the rules that most practicing attorneys will tell you is that if your best argument is that something is unconstitutional, you've probably got a pretty weak case (especially outside the criminal law arena). Not always, but usually. _________________
Last edited by BigTex on Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: South of the Mason Dixon Line
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
BigTex wrote:
In addition to my responsibilities here, I am a tax attorney, and ALL arguments about the legality/constitutionality/morality of the income tax are a complete waste of your time and energy.
Much better to hire someone who understands how the system ACTUALLY works, rather than someone who understands how it SHOULD work.
I'm not commenting on whether any of the tax protest movements' arguments are interesting or not, I'm just saying that you shouldn't test an anti-gravity device by jumping off the top of a building.
Focus on what works.
Big Tex,
From my perspective the building we all stand on is only 3 feet tall. We are being misled into believing it is 100 stories tall. It is way more simple than it appears, and truly studying this situation will reveal the truth. It would also be interesting to hear from the above posters and others after they view the video...
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
madpaddler wrote:
Look again, that is a "code" not a law (ie USC, C meaning code not law).
SWEET! So that means I don't have to comply with 18USC229 either? I can stockpile chemical weapons to my heart's content?
Quote:
It also says "taxable income" do you know what that means?
Indeed.
26USC2(e) "For definition of taxable income, see section 63"link
26USC63(a) "the term 'taxable income' means gross income minus the deductions
allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction)." link
26USC61(a) "Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:
(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
(4) Interest;
(5) Rents;
(6) Royalties;
(7) Dividends;
(8 ) Alimony and separate maintenance payments;
(9) Annuities;
(10) Income from life insurance and endowment contracts;
(11) Pensions;
(12) Income from discharge of indebtedness;
(13) Distributive share of partnership gross income;
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust." link
Quote:
As a moderator it is disappointing that you can refer to legitimate information sharing as "morons" believing in sitcoms.
Yeah.....Anybody holding a march on Washington because they are unable to read the laws, is a moron. Hold a march because you don't like the law. Because you want the law changed. I'll even join you, but don't try to prevaricate and make up a bunch of crap to deny that it exists.
Quote:
Maybe you should take the 1 1/2 hour break from your day to sit and thoughtfully look at the info that is readily available for review in that video.
Ohh...I am. I'm about 38 minutes in so far and every legal claim that I've come across has been a verifiable lie, but I'll keep watching. _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2626 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
madpaddler wrote:
BigTex wrote:
In addition to my responsibilities here, I am a tax attorney, and ALL arguments about the legality/constitutionality/morality of the income tax are a complete waste of your time and energy.
Much better to hire someone who understands how the system ACTUALLY works, rather than someone who understands how it SHOULD work.
I'm not commenting on whether any of the tax protest movements' arguments are interesting or not, I'm just saying that you shouldn't test an anti-gravity device by jumping off the top of a building.
Focus on what works.
Big Tex,
From my perspective the building we all stand on is only 3 feet tall. We are being misled into believing it is 100 stories tall. It is way more simple than it appears, and truly studying this situation will reveal the truth. It would also be interesting to hear from the above posters and others after they view the video...
My friend, I wish what you were saying were the case.
But it's not.
Trust me. I don't need to study the situation to reveal the truth. I know what the truth is, and it's whatever the federal courts say it is.
Please don't waste your time and indignation on this topic.
It will only frustrate you. I PROMISE YOU that no tax reform will ever occur as a result of the line of reasoning you are using. _________________
Joined: Aug 30, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: South of the Mason Dixon Line
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
Quote:
As a moderator it is disappointing that you can refer to legitimate information sharing as "morons" believing in sitcoms.
Yeah.....Anybody holding a march on Washington because they are unable to read the laws, is a moron. Hold a march because you don't like the law. Because you want the law changed. I'll even join you, but don't try to prevaricate and make up a bunch of crap to deny that it exists.
Quote:
Maybe you should take the 1 1/2 hour break from your day to sit and thoughtfully look at the info that is readily available for review in that video.
Ohh...I am. I'm about 38 minutes in so far and every legal claim that I've come across has been a verifiable lie, but I'll keep watching.[/quote]
Thanks, that is all I am asking. Do you remember the first time you recognized PO as a real problem? Did you immediately dismiss the idea as concocted by a bunch of paranoid gullible people? My brother told me about PO in 2005 and at first I thought, oh jezz here he goes again. Then I joined this forum to study for myself and try to rationalize what he was saying.
If you feel my post is just one of those crazy anti-tax loons trying to get away with paying money, you are wrong. I would gladly pay my "share" to help fund any number of reasonable programs. You all see what is happening concerning the value of our currency, what is happening with our government, the world issues...they are all connected and for it to be dismissed as flatly as you have is disappointing. If you can indicate the info is "a bunch of crap" please do so... it does nothing but help the education process.
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Very Disturbing
madpaddler wrote:
Do you remember the first time you recognized PO as a real problem? Did you immediately dismiss the idea as concocted by a bunch of paranoid gullible people?
No, not really. It's pretty logical, and there's no viable refutation. The only thing I've ever heard any in depth argument about vis-a-via PO is when it's coming and what it's impact will be.
I brushed off Y2k that way though.
Quote:
If you feel my post is just one of those crazy anti-tax loons trying to get away with paying money, you are wrong. I would gladly pay my "share" to help fund any number of reasonable programs.
Like I said, I think income taxes are a horrible thing, and the ever blossoming federal government they have enable is a monster. I just think it's really naive to think your going to get rid of that monster with some argument about "You didn't use the right word here." If the federal government is good at anything, it is good at passing laws, regulating our behavior, and coming up with inescapable mechanisms to extract taxes from us.
You want to have a march on Washington to repeal the 16th amendment and the Internal Revenue Code, I'm there with you. Let's do it. But for now the code does exist. It does require filling of returns and paying of taxes. Pretending it's not there is not going to solve the problem. _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
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