trains in Australia

alokin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 24, 2007 Posts: 600

Australia has really a very under developed railway net. And the few railway lines which exist are nearly not served at all. Here in Queensland there are rails which are served only once a week.
Others are downgraded as museum rails.
Recently I saw a book in the library about ghost railways in Australia, and there were many.

I come from Europe were all major cites have several train connections a day or nearby towns are often served hourly (well it was lot better years ago). Nowadays some lines are operated privately as the central train wanted to shut them down (there are lots which are shut down since maybe the 60th)
I wonder if there are governmental or other movements to improve the train services in Australia. If for example the Brisbane Sydney train does not run at least on a daily basis nobody won't use it than tourists. It's admittedly a really long travel but there are lots of smaller towns in between who could have a good connection.

katkinkate · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: Re: trains in Auistralia

The Brisbane-Sydney rail line takes freight only at the moment. Passengers take the train to the Gold Coast, bus to Casino then train the rest of the way. I don't think passenger rail will take off in Australia until air travel gets a lot more expensive.
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alokin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 24, 2007 Posts: 600

Not only for environmental reasons, in Europe I took the train, because you don't have to book in advance, take a train sooner or later (may risk you don't get a seat) and you don't have to be half an hour earlier and train stations are in the centre, whereas airports are outside.

Aedo · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 23, 2005 Posts: 173

Trains are brilliant things - but lots of up front investment is required to start them off (they then run for a looong time on minimal maintenance). To get the tracks built you would need someone to pay for it in the first place - a cost that would then be passed on to the users.

The biggest problem is that the competition for trains are roads - and the roads have already been made BUT... the road users DO NOT pay their fair share of the capital and operating costs! This means that road users have a significant economic advantage to rail users - one that wil only be overcome when road users are compelled to fully pay their way.

Kfish · Tar Sands Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 90

With the rising cost of petrol, more freight rail is being looked at as an alternative to trucking goods. The thing to remember is that Australia is very nearly as big as Europe, with the capital cities spread out around the outside of the continent. Transport costs are thus a much larger proportion of an item's cost.

Currently, Australia's seeing some horrific inflation, particularly in food prices, concurrent with recent hikes in oil prices over the last year or so. It would make sense to assume that this is because nearly everything travels by truck, but there's no proof of the link.

My family is from outback Queensland, and a private consortium is looking at putting a freight rail link from Brisbane to Darwin (across a large number of farms).
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sparky · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 98

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The problem with trains is that they are more energy efficient than road or air , but less labor efficient , so if energy is cheap and labor expensive the rail loose ,
there is also a premium for bosses and consumers in using transports which are largely immune from unions shake down
Endless opposition by disgruntled locals on building new infrastructures next to their abode are also a time /cost extra ,
The extension of the eastern suburb rail line was mothballed by the then N.S.W. government twenty years ago as too hard , in spite of being desperately needed .

in the case of Australia , population density is a negative factor ,
the lower the density the less useful the rail is , making it a positive contributor for the inner city and satellites urban hubs

Of course should the standard of living drop back to the level of the thirties , rail then would have a bright future

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Somebody · Coal Joined: Feb 01, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

Somebody · Coal Joined: Feb 01, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

Also, if I can whore my own link ( Razz

), if anybody wants to see pictures of various trains (mostly passenger) from Victoria, New South Wales and South Australia they can go to this link.

sparky · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 98

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Took the train to Byron some years back , it was pretty much empty except for a few pentionners on concession and some unemployed using their " looking for work "transport allocation .

I think I was the only pasenger having having paid full fare ..
It was rather expensive and very ..very ...slow , a disgrace
the speed was because the tracks had been repeatedly down rated
rather than re-ballasted ,
the NSW STA doesn't see the point of paying for 95% of the cost of a
money loosing service which benefits NSW only marginally while Queensland benefit but doesn't pay .

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Somebody · Coal Joined: Feb 01, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

That pretty much sums up a lot of the people who travel on CountryLink services - the Casino-Murwillumbah line being an extreme example. There were statistics in some government report issued after it was closed which I read - one statistic being that about 90% of passengers were on concessions, free travel vouchers, etc. Nowhere near enough the cost of running it plus maintaining the line just for the one train a day.

As to being slow - the alignment of that line is (was Razz

) very twisty and windy and in the latter days the track would not have been maintained to much of a standard as no freight used it. All other XPTs run over lines that also have freight so at least there is some incentive to keep the line open! Laughing

Everybody who lives in those places gets in their cars and drives everywhere - or gets on a plane when they go interstate Razz

(What this has to do with a peak oil related forum, I do not know Wink

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sparky · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 98

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This is very much a peak oil related issue Rolling Eyes

the most obvious consequence of peak oil for individuals in advance economy is going to be the rising cost of personal transport ,
since the extended suburb lifestyle is based on cheap and easy commutation to the shops and work ( don't laugh )
passengers trains were the first transportation revolution , allowing the first national market of goods and the movement of people back and forth ,

The trains while still useful for cheap bulk transport have become pretty much obsolete in low density countries like
- Canada where the transcanadian service was discontinued a couple of years back ,
-USA where the Amtrack is struggling , with a very slow service ( and great food )
the train thrive in massive cities to carry millions of commuters back and forth , passengers can vouch for the loading factor at peak hours , as the cost of individual transport increase the train will slowly regain some of its advantages , but people will hate to lose the personal freedom of going where and when they wish .

P.S. in Sydney central station one of the platform has rails so crooked it's visible by lining the edge of the quay with the rails

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Aussie_physicist · Coal Joined: May 31, 2008 Posts: 4

It seems to me that Australia would be wise to invest in a high-speed rail ('bullet train') system connecting the major cities in the eastern states (with the other cities to join later). The future of air travel looks quite bleak at this point and Australia has one of the most (actually, I think I remember hearing that it's THE most) urbanised populations in the world, with upwards of 80-90% (can't remember the exact figure) of our residents living in the cities. we need an affordable, efficient way to connect those cities after air travel falls out of the economy. I suppose this discussion should also account for the likelihood of de-urbanisation of the population but I think the 'old cities' will still likely function as hubs, given all the infrustructure and resources that they contain.

Can anyone think of reasons why this would be an unwise investment?

sparky · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 98

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Well planes are cheaper for a start ,
which would indicate an overall lower carbon footprint
( I have this personal theory that the real cost of anything is in fact its in-build energy cost )

There is those pesky tracks to lay and maintain ,
my local rail authority ( NSW ) is doing experiment on not maintaining track and signals , it make rail much cheaper if somewhat slow and dangerous .

I'm for hight speed trains they are wonderful machines and riding them is a blast ,
the French have plenty of them in regular services and there is solid data on them
They totally cream the planes for any distance of less than 700 Km ( 500 miles ) above 1000 Km the plane regain the advantage .

So its all in the local conditions , distance, population density , land cost
Australia would probably be served better by upgrading its rail from deplorable to competent to start with Cool

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Somebody · Coal Joined: Feb 01, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Australia

sparky · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 98

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- The rail line to Byron bay is unfit for a third rate country ,
- last years trains were canceled or delayed due to the poor state of Sydney tracks
- the accident rate in N.S.W per passenger per Km is nothing much to crow about ,
- the standards and procedures are weak , it's management by crisis
- the train maintenance is unsatisfactory , passengers having to be jammed harder in less space due to the lack of available carriages ,
- mediocre time tables and forget night train or station personnel from late evening ,
- during big events the number of drivers who turn up is a guessing game ,
- The moral of the organization is poor , its management spin and spin again incapable of effecting any improvement .

go to Sydney central and ask commuters their level of satisfaction .
they are ripe for lynching someone Twisted Evil

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