SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) -- More than half the teen girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday.
A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3½ weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado.
Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two of those are pregnant now, he said; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.
"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.
Link _________________ Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5900 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
[quote="wisconsin_cur"]
Quote:
SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) -- More than half the teen girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday.
A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3½ weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado.
Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two of those are pregnant now, he said; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.
"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.
I wonder when they'll figure out that it isn't the teenage girls who are getting each other pregnant----its the fault of the old guys.
Once they figure that out, I hope they'll arrest the old guys and let the young girls have their kids back.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Cloud9 wrote:
How many old geezers are we talking about? What is the demographics of this group?
I wish they would tell us.
the men have not been given permission to talk to the media (they do not look as sympathetic). The women have been given their talking points and are sent in front of the cameras.
I have found one interesting statistic about the children who were at the ranch:
Quote:
Of the 463 children, 250 are girls and 213 are boys. Children 13 and younger are about evenly split—197 girls and 196 boys—but there are only 17 boys aged 14 to 17 compared with the 53 girls in that age range.
Link
Gee, I wonder why they have so many more girls of the age that they try to marry them off than boys?
What do they do with the extra boys?
Note the date of this article. It was not new news then.
We have let this go on for too long.
Link _________________ Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
wisconsin_cur wrote:
Gee, I wonder why they have so many more girls of the age that they try to marry them off than boys?
What do they do with the extra boys?
Probably the same damn thing most intelligent people did with 16 year old male children with raging hormones before this retarded notion that kids have to be 'sheltered' from life as long as possible took root in the collective psyche, namely boot their obnoxious asses out the door...
Quote:
We have let this go on for too long.
We've 'let this go on for too long' because there was a time in this country when people actually at least tried to respect the constitutional rights of others, regardless of whether or not we agreed with their lifestyle choices.
People raise their kids to believe all kinds of self-limiting, personality distorting, anti-humanistic toxic bullshit (for example, how's this one: "it doesn't matter how much of a piece of crap you are in the world, as long as you accept this fictional dead guy hanging on a tree as your 'personal savior' then it's ok because you'll be forgiven and scooped up to 'heaven' when you die"), and nary a cry of 'child abuse' is raised. Only when SEX is involved do people lose any ability for rational thought and hit the warpath screaming "save the children!!!". So the FLDSers raise their daughters to be 'Good Christians' as they see it, and 'Good Christian' in their worldview means 'wife at fourteen'. BIG DEAL. If people want jihad against these people for something that's NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS, then I call for it against ALL religious indoctrinators, because there are PLENTY of them that create people that are FAR more of a threat to human existence (such as those who enable, encourage and carry out persecutions of this sort) than these people will EVER be. _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Last edited by TWilliam on Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5900 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Underage sex is a crime. _________________ "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Last edited by Plantagenet on Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Mar 04, 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
TWilliam wrote:
Probably the same damn thing most intelligent people did with 16 year old male children with raging hormones before this retarded notion that kids have to be 'sheltered' from life as long as possible took root in the collective psyche, namely boot their obnoxious asses out the door...
I agree with you that children are too pampered for too long into what should be their adult lives, leading to an epidemic of infantilism in our country. But booting young men out the door is not the right way.
In the old days, children were productive members of the household economy. They did chores, helped grow food, raised animals and even earned a little money for the family if possible. When boys grew older, they worked as apprentices for their father or one of their uncles. Otherwise, their family would help them get a job somewhere. They certainly did not boot them out the door.
In this case, the evidence suggests that the boys were kicked out of the community because the older men wouldn't allow any competition for their "spiritual wives." Such practices are simply not compatible with a functioning civil society.
Imagine if this was common practise throughout the United States. We would have an entire shadow population of young men with no education, nowhere to go and nothing to do. That would lead to some serious social problems very quickly. _________________ "We shall live in interesting times, and we shall die in them too." - Heineken
Imagine if this was common practise throughout the United States. We would have an entire shadow population of young men with no education, nowhere to go and nothing to do. That would lead to some serious social problems very quickly.
Sounds a lot like the situation in the inner city.....but the young FLDS church boys can't even play basketball.
If people want jihad against these people for something that's NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS
Polygamy and underage sex are against the law.
That doesn't make it wrong; only illegal.
(But you know this...)
I wonder how many people nowadays understand the concept of jury nullification:
Quote:
The jury system was established because it was felt that a panel of citizens, drawn at random from the community, and serving for too short a time to be corrupted, would be more likely to render a just verdict, through judging both the accused and the law, than officials who may be unduly influenced to follow merely the established law. Jury nullification is a reminder that the right to trial by one's peers affords the public an opportunity to take a dissenting view about the justness of a statute or official practices.
The responsibility of a citizen is not merely to obey the law, but also to question, and if need be, overturn it. _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Precisely, tho' legal (or more accurately, illegal), in this case at least, is based largely on a subjective moral judgement. The point I am trying to make is simply this: I do not personally approve of certain aspects of the way these FLDSers live. But that disapproval is based solely in my personal sense of what constitutes moral behavior, nothing more. The fact that I disapprove does not give me the right to utilize the force of law to deny them their constitutionally guaranteed right to live as they see fit. More importantly, even if every single citizen in this country disapproves, I still have no right, nor does anyone else.
It is precisely such 'tyranny of the majority' that the founders of this nation were endeavoring to protect against when they chose a Constitutional Republic to be our form of government, rather than a Democracy.
I have repeatedly challenged people in this thread to provide a legitimate grounds for declaring it wrong for an older man to have sex with a woman of fourteen, and so far no one has been able to provide a single justification that boils down to anything other than "because I say it is", or "because it's illegal", which is the chicken-crap version of the former. Labeling it 'child abuse' simply because of the intergenerational nature of the sexual contact, without regard for the larger context in which it occurs, is deceitful, inflammatory and nothing more than a reprehensible attempt to justify the trampling of constitutional rights.
Now, if people want a clear, indefensible example of child-to-woman sexual abuse, then consider this asshole, but lay off the FLDSers, who at least have a community that is supportive and nurturing, within the context of their beliefs, built around their women.
Quote:
Are you Jerry Lee Lewis in disguise or something??
No. But I sure wouldn't mind having his money... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Cloud9 wrote:
Mala en se: Wrong because it is moraly wrong.
Mala prohibita: Wrong because the law says so.
All sex in Florida is illegal except that which is found within the confines of marriage. If we obeyed the law, half the state would be in jail.
Not just Florida. As of late 2001 six other states - Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, North Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia - still held "lewd and lascivious" male-female cohabitation (presumably meaning "living together and having sex") to be illegal. Arizona had repealed a similar law earlier that year, and the Virginia Supreme Court finally struck theirs down in 2005. I don't know the current situation in the remaining five...
[Edited to add:] Came across this little bit of info from an online article at the Northwestern University's Medill Journalism page, posted in 2005:
Quote:
Thirteen states still have anti-sodomy statutes. In five of those states - Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri - sodomy is only illegal between same-sex couples.
All 13 of the states that have sodomy statutes include oral sex as part of the definition of sodomy.
Nine states and the District of Colombia have statutes criminalizing fornication. And in Oklahoma, fornication under certain circumstances is still considered a felony. Oklahoma's so-called "seduction statute" reads:
"Any person who seduces a woman of previously chaste moral character under a false promise of marriage is guilty of a felony."
The statute goes on to explain that if the couple later marries, they may use that as part of their defense if charges are brought in a court of law. Otherwise your run-of-the-mill womanizer could find himself slapped with a $1,000 fine or imprisoned for up to five years for his indiscretions.
_________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
The state of Texas, in effect, just admitted what the press has been reporting for several weeks---- the search warrant they obtained to stage the raid and take the FLDS children away from their moms was based on a fraudulent claim made by a 33 year old woman who is an Obama superdelegate living in Colorado and who is already charged for making other phony claims of abuse.
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