Homestead Security

buzzard · Tar Sands Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 99 Location: skrazo

I have reached that stage of preparations when I have begun to think seriously about security for my small empire here in the sticks. I quickly scanned the topics for a few pages and looked in the "Index" that Shanny thoughtfully constructed without finding anything resembling what I had in mind.

It seems appropriate at this stage with a garden, food storage, rainwater collection, fuel storage, back-up power and a small arsenal, to be considering some sort of perimeter security. What I mean by this is some system of sensors or warning devices covering the outer edge of my place which will give me warning of trespassers [ie. Zombie Hordes].

I spent some time googling "perimeter security" with not much satisfaction. Has anyone here gotten to the stage where you have begun dealing with real world security issues for you homestead? If so, what are you doing and how high/low tech are your solutions?

Forgive me if ya'll have already beaten this subject into a dead horse but I didn't feel like going back over the archives in search of this topic.

I realize that any information will of necessity be quite general given the subject. Am I the only one thinking about this?
_________________
"I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true."
Led Zeppelin

Fishman · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

Got to keep it simple. Briars, strings with bells. Worst case senario go brutal with dogs, pungi sticks.

Ludi · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

Warning systems: Geese, guinea hens
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy

GeoJAP · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

I considered similar things myself in the past year. I live in a fairly nice area of Austin, but it is still working class and some burglaries do occur here. I have some things which burglars would be very interested in getting their hands on, and would also be very hard to replace.

The best method I found was a viciously loyal guard dog. My girlfriend has a chow, and I bought a female German Shepherd. They both sound the alarm when anything comes in the yard and are very a imposing force when the flashing teeth, defensive stance and barking starts. If they alert to something that is intent upon entering the house, I have had time to arm myself. I have found German Shepherds to be incredible animals. They are very smart, extremely loyal and attached to their owners, extremely assertive with a dominant personality, and practically fearless. They require copious amounts of training in order to channel that dominating personality into productive behavior. Otherwise they will be the boss and do whatever they want, which isn't a good idea with a 75 pound animal. Training is essential with them.

I thought about electronic surveillance, but in the end I considered the dog to be more practical. The only downside to the big dog is that it requires about $50 of food per month and a couple of hundred dollars of veterinarian bills every year. And it is on duty all the time, no days off or down time. An electronic surveillance system which monitors movement, sends alerts, captures movement, would be too prone to breaking, in my opinion. I work on computer systems for a living. In my experience, getting an electronic system to monitor your property will require fairly constant maintenance and monitoring by yourself to make sure that it is working properly.

You could also build a fence, if you had the time and materials. An 8 or 9 feet tall fence like they have around ranches which keep imported, exotic deer on the premises. A couple of German Shepherds and a tall fence like that, backed up by a reliable, semi-auto rifle would probably be a realistic, practical solution which would afford a reasonable amount of security.

dunewalker · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

GeoJap offers some good tips. I would just add that your limitation is numbers. You can't be alert 24/7. Much of the better doomer literature illustrates how a group of people defend themselves from "MZBs". "Lights Out" by halffast is probably the best online version of this genre. You can download all 600+ pages here:

http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf
_________________
"I believe that a wise Vermonter lives more by lack of expense rather than from income."--some Dartmouth professor from across the river

davep · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Get a couple of Maremma livestock guardian dogs. They're more territorial than the likes of Pyrenean Mountain Dogs (i.e. they recognise the boundaries of your property more readily, rather than wandering off) and will tend not to chase something once it's left your property.

They're also smaller and more agile than most other LGDs, and, once adult, can survive on less food.

Here's Snowball:

Just make sure you read up about the breed. They're not subservient like most dogs and will only tend to obey if they consider it a good idea. They're used to making up their own minds about things as they have historically been left with their flock on their own. These character traits can prove difficult to deal with for a lot of people.
_________________
All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha

eXpat · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 08, 2006 Posts: 861

What about electric fencing? there are some solar models link , and you can set up the energyzer link in a mettalic box or inside an old truck engine if you have one available, so is not taken out with a rifle.
The perimeter e.g. around your house, can be set up with barbed wire, a friend of mine has it like that and ir works fine.
There´s some interesting info how to set up electric fences here. Most of the manufacters sell you the complete kit.
_________________
Stocking up on popcorn Smile

Ludi · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

Standard electric fencing won't keep anyone out. It won't even keep sheep in.
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy

Pops · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

I found this thread Buzz, seems like there have been a few others.

We are real close to the road, a small farm road, but a road nonetheless.

Locks, lights and dogs I'm thinking are the best in our situation. Luckily we live in an area where most folks are smart enough to wait in the car when they hear dogs until someone comes outside.

We have an old german shepherd mix and an aussy that does whatever she tells him. She is a good dog and he is a sloth but between them they raise a racket. I know most dog people have their favorite breeds but the little yappers seem best to me - though I can't stand them myself. Surely a bad dog is just a disaster waiting to happen, imo.

I rigged a modular motion light once to set-off an alarm horn in addition to lights with the flick of a switch. I peed my pants a couple of time when I forgot to turn it off and walked into the trap area! I'm thinking it is too windy here to use such a rig outside unless it is straight infrared but it is a fairly cheap way to make an alarm for an important outbuilding.

Probably the most important thing is to keep stuff that looks valuable out of sight. My neighbor had to buy a new PTO generator for his dairy. It is $5k with wheels and and a hitch and he had it parked in the commodity barn 50ft from and in plain sight of his little road. I said throw a tarp over that thing Ken!
_________________
Make a plan and work it:

GeoJAP · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

Reading about Pops motion detector and lights reminded me of something. About two months ago I had an electrician come out to the house and install three high pressure sodium lights which I had bought from Home Depot. They have photo voltaic switches (turn on in the dark). The three lights total about 250 watts of energy usage and light output. The biggest one of them is as bright as a standard street light. They were placed strategically in the front of my house and illuminate the entire front of my property (and 4 neighbors as well) so that pretty much everything is plainly visible.

I live smack in the middle of a neighborhood block away from intersections where there is no street light, so it was pretty much pitch black before I installed those lights. My neighbors told me they appreciate me installing the light as they had been asking the city to come install a street light there for years.

Those lights will function as long as there is electricity coming to the house and no one shoots them out.

buzzard · Tar Sands Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 99 Location: skrazo

Good comments all:

dunewalker, I read "Lights Out" some time ago. I probably should re-read it.

GeoJAP- I once owned an Anatolian Shepherd, a Turkish Guard dog. A very old breed. They are downright amazing. We got this dog as a pup so she considered my wife and me part of her family. We also had six other dogs at the time and by the time Ursula was six months old she ruled them with an iron paw. I think Anatolian Shepherd is the original definition of stubborn. Ursula did things what she wanted when she wanted no argument. Our big mistake was in not taking her to obedience school. She refused to be put on a leash and even refused to wear a collar. I tried numerous times to put a collar on her with no success. Have you ever tried wrestling a 130 pound non-compliant Anatolian? Great fun.

We had to call a large animal vet out to our place when it was time for shots or check-ups. Then it took four people to corral her long enough to treat her. She was never vicious or mean. Whenever a stranger approached she would quietly confront them standing in their path. If the stranger stupidly turned and ran she would pull them down and subdue them. If the stranger continued to struggle, Ursula would clamp down with her teeth. If a stranger simply stood quietly she would simply block their way until she was assured by either me or my wife that the stranger was OK.

Anatolians do their job with no training or prompting. They guard only and everything they survey is theirs. In time most of the neighborhood came under her protection much to the consternation of some of the neighbors. Our neighbors were the proud owners of a wolf-dog. When that dog mistakenly encroached upon our property, Ursula took it down in about ten seconds. She didn't kill it thankfully but our neighbors were not happy. Anatolians have been known to kill a bear in one on one confrontation.

She was never spayed because we figured to breed her, since the breed is rare in the U.S. So every time she came into heat she would take her merry gang of pranksters, (our other six dogs)on a tour of the surrounding countryside looking for a mate. No fence could contain her when she wanted to roam. We even had our fence electrified. No help. One time Animal control attempted to capture her about two miles from home. The one officer made the mistake of throwing a rope over her. He was drug for over 50 feet before he could let go. The other officer tied one end of his rope to their vehicle and threw the loop over her neck. By the time he approached her she had chewed through the rope and was gone. Naturally I received a visit from Animal Control. My dog? You must be mistaken Officer. My dog is laying out in the back yard.

Ursula never got knocked up for the simple reason that Anatolians only mate with their own kind. And of course she never found another Anatolian Shepherd. She would aggressively refuse any other male dog.

Alas we lost her in the fire which took our house and everything we had including four dogs. From the experience I must concur that any dog in that category must be trained to at least recognize who is boss. I will find out more about Maremma livestock guardian dogs although I must admit that I am tempted to find another Anatolian.

As far as some high tech sensor array, I have thought about it's vulnerabilities. However I can see the value in being alerted from as far from the house as possible. I have just recently installed an electric gate with keypad and remote opener powered by a solar panel. We are 1/2 mile from the highway. I have an existing fence around the perimeter, however much of it is probably a hundred years old at least. I have a woods which covers much of the north side and a gully on the southeast corner. I am not enthusiastic about attempting to re-fence the entire place. It will be work enough to fence the garden and fence in any livestock I have.

The brambles and thorns is something which I have already begun to use here since they grow naturally. I have selectively let them cover many spots which would be vulnerable. However that method is a long term solution. It takes time to grow thorns where you want them.

Thanks again folks. Security, that nebulous always unattainable illusion. I feel that I must do something though.
_________________
"I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true."
Led Zeppelin

aflurry · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 805

buzzard · Tar Sands Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 99 Location: skrazo

Pops · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

At the top of the forum pages is search, there are a few options there, I used security as the keyword, PFTF as the forum and thread titles as the thing to search.

I am sure there are other similar threads (some pretty radical if I remember) I just can't remember the titles.

I'll have to go and read the thread...
_________________
Make a plan and work it:

GeoJAP · Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Homestead Security

Wow, that sounds like a great dog, Buzzard. I'll have to read up on them.