For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
seahorse wrote:
KTH,
This is why you don't have my respect. You do nothing but ruin threads, intentionally.
I commented on my esteemed position in the petroleum consuming world.
Having observed closely how others fared while trying to be "educational" to the great unwashed masses here at po.com, you will forgive me for matching those actions against your speech on how you, and by extension, the readers here, want to be "educated", and deciding which matters more, the actions or the words.
Either way, you are correct in that this is off topic, so I shall not comment again unless requested. _________________ Freddy RULZ!
www.TrendLines.ca/scenarios.htm Home of the Real Peak Date ... set by geologists (not pundits) (or bankers) (or web "experts")
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2082 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
KTH said:
Quote:
I commented on my esteemed position in the petroleum consuming world.
Like I said, you were just being a smart ass and purposely ruining a well intentioned thread. Instead of reading posts like Gasmon above, which I found very fascinating, you just want to smart off and be divisive.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
seahorse wrote:
KTH said:
Quote:
I commented on my esteemed position in the petroleum consuming world.
Like I said, you were just being a smart ass and purposely ruining a well intentioned thread. Instead of reading posts like Gasmon above, which I found very fascinating, you just want to smart off and be divisive.
I read every word Gasmon wrote. I found it fascinating as well, professionals within a field usually enjoy exchanging "war" stories as it were.
I would also venture that assigning credibility based on picking the conclusions you like best shouldn't be confused with either the actual validity of the conclusion under consideration, nor the expertise and credibility of the people who come up with conclusions you disagree with.
But I did like Gasmon's story. _________________ Freddy RULZ!
www.TrendLines.ca/scenarios.htm Home of the Real Peak Date ... set by geologists (not pundits) (or bankers) (or web "experts")
Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Oklahoma USA
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
I am a design engineer/project manager for one of the largest oil service companies in the world. I primarily operate in offshore cementing.
As of 2004 (when I became peak aware) not many people inside this business were aware of the gravity of the situation....or that there was a situation at all. In 2005 I attended a standing room only meeting with 3 of our senior vice presidents. They asked if anyone in the room really thought oil would still be over $40 a bbl in 5 years. I was the only one in the crowd to raise my hand. Laughter, at my expense, ensued. Needless to say, no one is laughing now. As of 2008 there are a good number of folks inside the game who are fully peak aware. Unfortunately, I can't put my finger on anything that has substantially changed due to that awareness.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
ExtractionEngineer wrote:
As of 2008 there are a good number of folks inside the game who are fully peak aware. Unfortunately, I can't put my finger on anything that has substantially changed due to that awareness.
Great insight. Unfortunately most companies out here in California are too busy worrying about their own projects to look globally. Everyone here knows the local fields are in decline and the discoveries are tiny compared to historical discoveries but they do not relate that to the overall picture of global oil discoveries not keep pace with global production decline.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
Extractionengineer,
I'm glad you're here and interested and look forward to reading your posts. As JT has pointed out by starting this thread, people in the industry bring a much needed perspective to the issue of PO and energy issues in general.
I've said before that I think all problems are solvable. However, problems only get solved is people are aware of the problem and then only act if they believe the problem to be serious. With PO and energy issues in general, the problems are too big for any one company to solve. They truly are national issues and require a national response. So far, Americans have not responded because Americans are simply ignorant to the issue. Right now, they simply believe that fuel prices are high because the are being gouged by a greedy Opec or greedy oil majors. Because they are ignorant and believe they are just being gouged, the risk is they will "react" to the problem instead of addressing the problem. For example, the CEOs of various oil majors were chastised last year by Congress, there is talk of increasing taxes (which would hurt exploration), Congress is now publicly mad at Opec (where will this lead?). These are the wrong kind of reactions brought about out of public ignorance. So, instead of understanding and addressing the issue, we do nothing, but what we have done so far hurts, not helps (turn food into fuel for example).
Its my belief that people will not receive the message until industry insiders like yourself are willing to give credibility to the issue and educate people about the issue. That's why I'm glad you took the time to post. I have enjoyed the posts that others like you have made here on PO. Rockdoc, Energydigger, Gasmon, Shakespear, and others.
What is interesting to me is what you said in your above post and what Gasmon said in his above post, about a lack of appreciation or understanding of the PO issue even within the energy business. For example, Gasmon wrote this:
Quote:
In my experience, people working in the (gas) industry at the sharp end do not know very much about the overall picture.
In a similar vein, you wrote:
Quote:
As of 2004 (when I became peak aware) not many people inside this business were aware of the gravity of the situation....or that there was a situation at all.
So, it just shows how much work is needed to bring this issue to national attention.
Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Oklahoma USA
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
seahorse2,
Work is being done to educate. From a personal perspective I speak about peak oil whenever I get a chance in professional environments. I have no direct line of contact (yet) with top level policy makers, though.
I will attend the Offshore Technology Conference in Houston next week. There are many peak-aware folks/entities there. Last year nearly 70,000 people attended and even more are expected this year. In fact, Matt Simmons typically attends and occassionally presents at OTC.
Here's a question for you. What is a rational response from an oil company that recognizes peak oil and it's implications? The answers are as many as the myriad of individual responses to the same recognition. I agree, long past time to put the sirens on full blast.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
Don't work in the industry but our company depends on oil to move the products to us, then to our customers via UPS, USPS, and FedEx.
Also...the whole surf, skate, and snowboard industry is a wash in oil due to the products produced.
Bonkers I tell ya!
cb _________________ President Bush: “There’s no question about it. Wall Street got drunk—that’s one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras. It got drunk, and now it’s got a hangover."
Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 486 Location: Amerika (most of the time)
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
ExtractionEngineer wrote:
seahorse2,
Here's a question for you. What is a rational response from an oil company that recognizes peak oil and it's implications? The answers are as many as the myriad of individual responses to the same recognition. I agree, long past time to put the sirens on full blast.
Hello fellow oil industy folks. I work for one of the evil "Big Oil" companies you hear so much about. I am currently on the financial side of things which currently are much more interesting than the engineering side where I was before.
To answer your question EE, the rational response from an oil company is to continue doing what they have doing which is paying huge dividends, share repurchases and gobbling each other up. If its harder and harder to find oil, then drill for it on Wall Street and if that doesn't work, then give the money back to the shareholders.
Also I have had some conversations about Peak Oil with pretty high up people and there is some knowledge about it but at the same time things are getting pretty difficult within the industry. Most people at my company (and throughout the industry) have put in 20+ years and are sitting on a gold mine of stocks and are going to start retiring en masse. Right now, my company is having a very difficult time finding enough people to fill the projected shortfall and technical people are next to impossible to find. Newbie petroleum engineers coming straight out of college are getting $70-80k/year + signing bonus. _________________ Simon's Law: Everything put together falls apart sooner or later.
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
big_rc wrote:
Newbie petroleum engineers coming straight out of college are getting $70-80k/year + signing bonus.
Same thing with landman graduates. I have several friends spread out over the mid-continent that are landman and they started anywhere from $65-$80,000 their first year out of college. Some got signing bonuses and some got tuition reimbursement if they had a high GPA their last year of college. And many like me had a job 6 months before I graduated college.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
I work up in the oilsands of Alberta. Things are full speed ahead up here with most people worried about how to pay 700,000 for a crappy little cookie-cutter house. I've worked as a surveyor all over the province for over 10 years and must say there's very few who have any real knowlege of the huge slowdown of the 80's up here, let alone what may be coming in the future. Most that have moved here in the last few years think there's a "sustainable" economy on the go. Record housing increases have dropped flat but not so bad overall since we couldn't get the fisher-price loans they were giving out down in the states (darn government regulations). Looking to save up and get some land in the mountains for a safe haven, but mostly for sledding, skiing and dirt biking for now.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2082 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
EE,
You're question as to what is a rational response by an oil company is a good one. Unfortunately, I'm not sure a response can be made by the industry until the industry itself becomes "PO" aware. I say this bc big_rc reiterates what you and Gasmon have both said, which is there is little understanding of the issue even in the industry. For example, BigRC wrote:
Quote:
Also I have had some conversations about Peak Oil with pretty high up people and there is some knowledge about it but at the same time things are getting pretty difficult within the industry.
As you point out, the industry is beginning the recognition process (at various conferences etc.)
On a side note, I'm curious as to why there is so little recognition of the issue in the industry? I assume its bc people and companies naturally focus on their own jobs, areas, etc. For example, each employee obviously has a task, areas to work within, and that information may or may not be shared with others. Further, as with any business, companies don't share their "reserves" or other proprietary information with other companies for obvious reasons, and only report what needs to be reported with the SEC for example. This, however, leads to the problem pointed out by Simmons, that there is no international "data base" of info. I understand that's just the natural result of things, but the combination of the above simply means that until there is a problem, there is no recognition of it by anyone, including the industry itself.
I also agree with Big-RC that a company only has a duty to act in the best interest of its shareholders. However, I believe that acting in the best interest of shareholders means the public needs to be educated to the problem, otherwise, Congress may begin taxing the crap out of them at exactly the wrong time, which is not good for the companies, their shareholders, or the country.
But, what is a rational response by a company? I think several things could be done. Here's a list of things that jump out at me:
(1) Standardize terms - its my understanding, and I may be wrong, that various terms for categorizing reserves, resources etc have no real standard definitions, thus, its difficult for anyone to really assess where we are. I would hope the industry would work diligently to standardize terms. Nationally, and I know everyone hates regulation, but I believe that Congress or the SEC should require, to the extent its possible, standardization of terms;
(2) Increased reporting based on standardized terms - we need increased reporting of all resources/reserves to the SEC using standardized terms. In this way, good companies go up in value and the poor companies that have been b.s ing go down in value and get gobbled up. We need money to be flowing to the companies that deserve it;
(3) I would like to see companies, individually and as a group, to publicly acknowledge PO is a serious issue that needs to be understood both in time and scope. I would hope that companies, acting individually or as a concerted group, would follow Simmons and Boone Pickens in bringing this issue to the attention of the public via public news sources as well as to Congress via Congressman Bartlett's PO committee. Congressmen like Bartlett and Senator Ron Paul seem to understand the issue, but they need the support of the various companies to get public attention on the issue;
(4) Begin various commercial advertisements on the issues of the complexity of drilling, how difficult it is to find and actually drill and produce oil, including how oil wells do deplete in time. It would be very easy to have short commercials picking out a few big fiels like the North Sea or even Alaska to show how difficult it is to drill and how they decline over time. People need to be educated. Ker McGee has had a few commercials kind of like this, but nothing that really makes people understand how important this is. Just a few statistic would help, the US in 1970 produced about 9mbd if I remember right? Its not about 1/2 that, thus we have to either find it or import it. We use about 20 mbpd and have to import about half of that. Further, not all oil is the same. People have to understand how difficult and expensive the refinery process is, so they can appreciate why gas is so expensive and won't waste it.
I would hope that the industry as a whole could come up with some commercials that could run nationally. This would really reduce the costs to any individual company, educate Americans, and hopefully get pro-action and not reaction.
Just a few thoughts, I hope others will weigh in as well.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
joeltrout wrote:
big_rc wrote:
Newbie petroleum engineers coming straight out of college are getting $70-80k/year + signing bonus.
Same thing with landman graduates. I have several friends spread out over the mid-continent that are landman and they started anywhere from $65-$80,000 their first year out of college. Some got signing bonuses and some got tuition reimbursement if they had a high GPA their last year of college. And many like me had a job 6 months before I graduated college.
joeltrout
Petroleum engineers are hard to find and worth every dime a company pays for them, but is there actually a major somewhere called "Landman"? I have only bumped into 4 over my lifetime, and their backgrounds have all been wildly different and none of them really had specialized in it in college. _________________ Freddy RULZ!
www.TrendLines.ca/scenarios.htm Home of the Real Peak Date ... set by geologists (not pundits) (or bankers) (or web "experts")
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
KillTheHumans wrote:
but is there actually a major somewhere called "Landman"?
Good question because it is a position that is not known by many outside the industry and even inside the industry not everyone realizes what landmen do.
Yes it is a business degree called either Petroleum Land Management or Energy Management. Basicly every well that is drilled in the US is started by a landman. He is the person who finds out who the mineral owner is, negotiates an oil and gas lease with them, then negotiates surface damages with the surface owner, and once that is taken care of then the seismic or drilling is lead by the geologist and/or engineers.
Every oil and gas company has a land department and usually uses outside land companies (brokers) to do work for them also.
I called this morning and The American Assoc of Professional Landman (AAPL) has a little over 10,000 members.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Last edited by joeltrout on Mon May 05, 2008 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1090 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Do you work in the oil industry?
The University of Tulsa just started their program. They show the average monthly salary for summer INTERNS is $4239.56 and then they also have living/moving allowances up to $2,000 per month.
Not bad for a college student in their sophmore or junior year.
When I was at the University of Oklahoma we had 7 years straight of 100% job placement before the seniors graduated. Which is a huge relief for graduates.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
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