How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Hi all,
As Buddhist I will like to share what I think will be useful for peak oil aware people. Some of this may be not exclusive to Buddhism.
1) the practice of meditation: this calms the mind, and practiced with an ethical conduct and search of wisdom, it makes us better as humans. Lately I've being smiling more, and being much less pathological. I hated humans, then I was just asocial, but after starting meditation I've become more and more compassionate and loving. Now I just don't trust the humans that I don't know (I think this is a healthy equilibrum).
2) the ethics of ahimsa and the meaning of nirvana: ahimsa is an ethical conduct that is based on reducing suffering across all living beings. This is shared with many other religions and philosophies. I think that we must agree on reducing suffering as a way of making a better world, we must at least agree that we will work for a better humanity, one that doesn't create suffering to itself (other humans) and to its natural environment. Suffering is more psychological reactions than pain, uncomfortable sensorial stimuli. Nirvana means the cessation of suffering.
3) rebirth and interdependant arising: this is a world view of complex relationships between various life forms and how to live in harmony. This is tree-hugger stuff, and so on. Rebirth is important because we must take care of this world, it's in our best interest. And if you don't think rebirth is true, then use it as a visualisation technique of how the world will end if we continue changing it in the way we're now changing it. Think of your offspring or later humans, and of life on earth. Use rebirth as a visualisation technique of empathy towards life.
4) ignorance must be reduced or eliminated if possible: pretty self-explanatory, but we must find a consensus first on what is ignorance and what is the truth of reality. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1715 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
As a marxian economist, I see no real systemic remedies as such. Lots of feel good things I can do as an individual, but nothing I can aspire after in the way I would like to live or my children for that matter.
Oh, and a lot of labels. Like treehuggers. Rather pointless really. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
americandream wrote:
As a marxian economist, I see no real systemic remedies as such. Lots of feel good things I can do as an individual, but nothing I can aspire after in the way I would like to live or my children for that matter.
Oh, and a lot of labels. Like treehuggers. Rather pointless really.
So is marxism another form of nihilism? The system is "written in stone", unchangable and we're forever cursed with its existance? Don't you realise that we MAKE and CHANGE the system? _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
americandream wrote:
As a marxian economist, I see no real systemic remedies as such. Lots of feel good things I can do as an individual, but nothing I can aspire after in the way I would like to live or my children for that matter.
Oh, and a lot of labels. Like treehuggers. Rather pointless really.
So is marxism another form of nihilism? The system is "written in stone", unchangable and we're forever cursed with its existance?
Don't you realise that we MAKE and CHANGE the system?
No, no. This is totally not what Marxism is saying, in fact it is the total opposite-- and Marxism is criticized for having too much faith and advocacy in human agency, and for striving for too "utopianist" an objective.
I think what americandream was saying is that the material conditions of the world (wealth etc.) are to him the most fundamental determinants in the cultural problems in the world, and not vice versa. Thus, no amount of tinkering within the system is sufficient to produce meaningful change-- that the system must be overhauled wholesale (aka revolution--right?).
This is a guess, but I believe that if you both were not so interested in attacking one another's position, you would find a lot of common ground. Hence "reducing suffering" is position that we all share.
Ultimately, I am guessing that you are striving for pretty similar things, but differ in tactics.
Thus Buddhism targets the personal (micro) and spiritual dimensions, whereas Marxism tackles the political (macro) and material dimensions.
Because they concentrate in different areas, Marxism and Buddhism are totally compatible, however!
Thus the Dalai Lama describes himself as "Half-Marxist, half-Buddhist"!
I am not necessarily Buddhist (I want to learn more about it, perhaps here) but I do think that concurrent transformation/revolution on the micro and the macro scale are essential-- to solving PO and most of the world's other problems.
Last edited by Kaj on Fri May 02, 2008 10:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
1) the practice of meditation: this calms the mind, and practiced with an ethical conduct and search of wisdom, it makes us better as humans. Lately I've being smiling more, and being much less pathological. I hated humans, then I was just asocial, but after starting meditation I've become more and more compassionate and loving. Now I just don't trust the humans that I don't know (I think this is a healthy equilibrum).
Yikes! Remind me to avoid meditation. Compassionate? Loving? Icch!
zensui wrote:
2) the ethics of ahimsa and the meaning of nirvana: ahimsa is an ethical conduct that is based on reducing suffering across all living beings.
I have a way to reduce suffering. Quick, pretty much painless - and they'll never suffer again.
zensui wrote:
Suffering is more psychological reactions than pain, uncomfortable sensorial stimuli. Nirvana means the cessation of suffering.
Yeah? I think I have some ideas to help some people accomplish Nirvana.
zensui wrote:
3) Think of your offspring or later humans, and of life on earth. Use rebirth as a visualisation technique of empathy towards life.
Sure. I'll think about them. In my own special way.
zensui wrote:
4) ignorance must be reduced or eliminated if possible: pretty self-explanatory, but we must find a consensus first on what is ignorance and what is the truth of reality.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
May I point out something interesting about this thread-- about the people that it has pulled together thusfar-- its has created quite an aesthetic symmetry.
(Pstarr, as you have not advanced any particular preference, you will have to munch in the centre rather than at the sidelines for this to work).
My point is not that I am very sad, which might be inferred from this post (I am bored out of my skull waiting at an airport), but that PO does have a wonderful diversity of perspective. I love it.
Last edited by Kaj on Sun May 04, 2008 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
I'm glad you followed through and did this zensui. Of course I won't be in here laying down the blue streak that you left in the Christian thread. But I will be sure to look carefully at your statements and give them the scrutiny they deserve.
_________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
mos6507 wrote:
You really should volunteer with the minutemen
Umm? What's in it for me?
zensui wrote:
Can we all agree that suffering must be diminished? ...Even with Jack's only-for-me aproach.
Why?
No - seriously - why?
Let us say we have an hypothetical individual (me, for example). I can consume more, perhaps depriving others. I make myself happy, and indirectly make others quite unhappy (they suffer more).
Or, I can consume less, perhaps leaving more for others. I do not make myself happy, but others' suffering is reduced.
I would like to see a response that does not appeal to moral or ethical constructs, since those represent indirect (and, arguably, unproven) benefits. Please tell me what, precisely, I gain by reducing the suffering of others. _________________ Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn!
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
I'm glad you followed through and did this zensui. Of course I won't be in here laying down the blue streak that you left in the Christian thread. But I will be sure to look carefully at your statements and give them the scrutiny they deserve.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Kaj wrote:
(Pstarr, as you have not advanced any particular preference, you will have to munch in the centre rather than at the sidelines for this to work).
PO does have a wonderful diversity of perspective. I love it.
I have no particular preference or reference, though I'd prefer that people operate rationally in their own enlightened self interest, and choose kindness and love first among options.
I am too worldly to believe that any one religion, paradigm, attitude, or philosophy is applicable to all situations. Things change constantly and it is unreasonable to carry preconceptions. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
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