Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
BigTex wrote:
Do you think that our energy related problems are the result of not drilling enough, or a result of the early stages of peak oil?
If the problem is we are not drilling enough, then drilling in ANWR makes perfect sense.
If the problem is peak oil, then drilling in ANWR may cause us to waste precious years wallowing in a false sense of security that there isn't really a resource depletion problem at all. But once we run through the ANWR oil, much like the newest credit card in my analogy, we may find that we are not back where we started, but actually worse off, because we will be several years farther along the peak oil timeline and still will not have given it serious thought because we were too busy sucking on the ANWR tit.
Peak Oil happened in 2005. Check the EIA data.
Our current post-peak energy related problems are due to a lack of inexpensive energy. Things are only going to get worse. There is no magic bullet to fix this. We'll have to use a mix of energy source to replace the declining petroleum production, and it is inevitable that oil will continue to be part of the energy mix in the US for many years.
Its silly to imagine that drilling ANWR would stop the US from moving towards energy solutions. The supply from ANWR isn't large enough to meet the demands of the entire US....it would mainly have an impact on the west coast.
The failure of the US to move towards energy solutions isn't because of ANWR----the US doesn't have an energy policy because we have a failure of leadership. Look at the present campaign---none of the politicans running for president have coherent energy policies. Neither does the Congress, which has outlawed drilling in ANWR at the same time it mandated the creation of government-subsidized ethanol by farmers in the midwest (of course----the midwest has many farmers and many Congressmen....and Alaska has no farmers and only one inept Congressman).
Of course, it is also possible that you benefit personally from blocking ANWR or from ever-higher gas prices, and that is influencing your opposition to ANWR.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
Plantagenet wrote:
Of course, it is also possible that you benefit personally from blocking ANWR or from ever-higher gas prices, and that is influencing your opposition to ANWR.
Nope. I don't benefit.
And I'm not especially opposed to drilling in ANWR, as long as we don't go into it thinking it is some kind of solution to a long term problem. It's just one more little pile of scraps to sweep up and consume as quickly as possible.
I would just hate to see us do it, and then be surprised to find that it does almost nothing to help solve the energy problem, and in the meantime no other mitigation steps have been taken because people were banking on ANWR. _________________
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
BigTex wrote:
I would just hate to see us do it, and then be surprised to find that it does almost nothing to help solve the energy problem, and in the meantime no other mitigation steps have been taken because people were banking on ANWR.
Why would opening ANWR stop other "mitigation" steps?
Even if ANWR is drilled and it supplies the western US with oil for a few decades, that would still leave the eastern US and 2/3 of the population needing "mitigation" ASAP.
Personally, I think we should be drilling ANWR, building nukes, building high-speed intercity trains and light rail commuter lines in cities, funding research on solar, tide, hydrogen, nuclear-electric nano engines etc. and doing it all right now. As global oil production begins to drop, the pressure on the price is going to be be enormous and painful for consumers.
Peak Oil has already happened. It just gets worse from here. We are getting farther into the "Big Muddy" and our gaddam politicians and the media are wasting everybody's time arguing about who is wearing flag lapel pins.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
TreeFarmer wrote:
A number of exploratory wells were drilled off of the southeast coast back in the 1980's. What was or was not found was not publicized.
TF
Drilling was done off the Coast of NC, around Cape Hatteris area by Mobil back then..
If I remember correctly, it was Natural Gas "mostly".. then PROMPTLY put "off limits" too drilling and exploration, .GOV bought back the "leases" (blocks)....
Now Locals here are trying too get it opened back up..
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
I have a wealthy friend with a 2nd house on the beach in
Florida and he is a staunch Republican. He always rants on
how the tree huggers won't let the Republicans "solve the
supply issue" by drilling ANWR. I decided to change the
old rant on him by agreeing we should open ANWR,
but I added the caveat that first we should drill the
Florida coast and get all the crude we can in good
weather conditions that is close to the refineries in
Louisiana and Texas.
He went absolutely apeshit. ANWR is patriotic and
the right thing to do, Florida is for rich people and
they don't like the production side of petroleum one
bit, they just like the profits and the fuel for their
SUV's and watercraft. He went on and on, Florida
is densely populated, it is beautiful, it is a tourist
mecca, and I asked him if Alaska while sparsely
populated was really just trash for cash for the
lower 48. He said he wasn't sure, and had never
had the desire to go there, too cold.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 1985 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
Plantagenet wrote:
Bush made a speech on the energy crisis.
He called for ANWR to be drilled.
The dems in Congress indicated they won't open ANWR.
They are more worried about the ravings of Pastor Wright then the price of gas right now.
They're still repeating the market manipulation line. We'll see how long they can keep that up.
ANWR, or ANWAR as it's often presciently spelled by the uninformed, will have some holes in it within a few years. Wonder what trying to lay pipe will be like with the ground all mushy from warming temps though. Imagine the denial, the leaps of logic! _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
"I'm here to tell you that life as you knew it has ended."
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
TheDude wrote:
ANWR, or ANWAR as it's often presciently spelled by the uninformed, will have some holes in it within a few years.
Possibly, but the dems in Congress have successfully blocked it for 25 years now, and they will be in even stronger control of congress after the next election cycle.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
crossthread wrote:
TreeFarmer wrote:
A number of exploratory wells were drilled off of the southeast coast back in the 1980's. What was or was not found was not publicized.
TF
Drilling was done off the Coast of NC, around Cape Hatteris area by Mobil back then..(EDIT: Includes MARATHON OIL COMPANY )
If I remember correctly, it was Natural Gas "mostly".. then PROMPTLY put "off limits" too drilling and exploration, .GOV bought back the "leases" (blocks)....
Now Locals here are trying too get it opened back up..
I did some Quick research. still Looking..
I believe that Mobile was looking at Natural Gas, upwards of around 90% possibilites that it IS there..
Along with Possibilities of finding Oil
I found some old Court Dockets..
Seems the Goverment leased the blocks, and I'm assuming took the Money and Leases back..
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-244.ZO.html
****************************
Manteo Exploration Unit
OCS Leases Offshore North Carolina
Issue
At present, no active OCS oil and gas leases exist in any of the four Atlantic OCS Planning Areas. While more leases were originally issued offshore North Carolina, the primary focus had always been on the 21 leases comprising the Manteo Exploration Unit; $296 million was paid for these original 21 Manteo Unit leases. A joint effort by Mobil Oil and Marathon Oil paid $234,768,000 for five blocks.
The Manteo Exploration Unit was approved on May 25, 1990. The Manteo Unit had been subjected to three Suspensions of Operations (SOO) via several instruments including an MOU effective September 1, 1989; the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (OPA 90)legislation; and OPA 90 and Environmental Sciences Review Panel recommendations of June 8, 1992.
Two of the 21 Manteo Unit leases had proceeded through the review and examination process to the point where exploration plans were "approved.” In July 1982, the MMS approved a Chevron plan to explore Manteo Block 510. This block had an approved Coastal Zone Management Act (CZMA) consistency concurrence from the State of North Carolina and an approved Application for Permit to Drill from the MMS since 1984. A new CZMA approval would be needed only if a proposed revision could result in a significant change in the previously identified impacts.
In September 1990, the MMS conditionally approved Mobil's exploration plan to explore Manteo Block 467. The State of North Carolina denied consistency on Mobil's Exploration Plan and discharge permit in November 1990. Mobil appealed the decision in 1990 and in September 1994, the U.S. Department of Commerce upheld the State's decision. Mobil appealed that decision in January 1995. In June 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Mobil/Marathon that a "taking" occurred. In July 2000, a District Court Judge dismissed Mobil's litigation against Commerce Department and North Carolina, the Unit SOO was terminated, and the primary term clock commenced on the (then) eight remaining leases, all of which were relinquished in November 2000.
Must be "something" worthwhile there as there has been LOTS of RUMORS of drilling/permits getting going again.
I found some "Assesments"?
Virginia’s outer continental shelf (OCS) areas have been subject to limited federal, state, and industry resource assessments. These studies show the geology in Virginia’s OCS area to be gas prone, although the presence of economically recoverable supplies is not assured. In addition, the presence of oil cannot be ruled out. Further geophysical exploration and drilling will be necessary to determine affirmatively whether economically recoverable natural gas or oil exists. The federal MMS estimates that there may be 33.3 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 3.5 billion barrels of oil (called undiscovered conventionally recoverable hydrocarbon resources) in the Atlantic OCS. On a pro rata basis, this would total to about 11.7 trillion cubic feet of gas and 1.2 billion barrels of oil in the mid-Atlantic area. Based on MMS’s January 3, 2006, identification of offshore administrative boundaries, Virginia’s OCS area makes up about 11% of the mid-Atlantic OCS prospective production area. This percentage is considerably less than the percentage of the OCS area that was anticipated during the advisory group discussions. Royalty estimates depend on the amount of resources recoverable and the cost of gas or oil. There could be from zero to over $10 billion in total value of natural gas in the MMS’s Virginia offshore administrative boundary areas.
http://leg2.state.va.us/dls/h&sdocs.nsf/682def7a6a969fbf85256ec100529ebd/314f8feb1408441285256fcd004e4d6d?OpenDocument
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Drilling in currently off-limits areas of the US
crossthread wrote:
At present, no active OCS oil and gas leases exist in any of the four Atlantic OCS Planning Areas. While more leases were originally issued offshore North Carolina, the primary focus had always been on the 21 leases comprising the Manteo Exploration Unit; $296 million was paid for these original 21 Manteo Unit leases. A joint effort by Mobil Oil and Marathon Oil paid $234,768,000 for five blocks.
The Manteo Exploration Unit was approved on May 25, 1990. The Manteo Unit had been subjected to three Suspensions of Operations (SOO) via several instruments including an MOU effective September 1, 1989; the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (OPA 90)legislation; and OPA 90 and Environmental Sciences Review Panel recommendations of June 8, 1992.
Two of the 21 Manteo Unit leases had proceeded through the review and examination process to the point where exploration plans were "approved.” In July 1982, the MMS approved a Chevron plan to explore Manteo Block 510. This block had an approved Coastal Zone Management Act (CZMA) consistency concurrence from the State of North Carolina and an approved Application for Permit to Drill from the MMS since 1984. A new CZMA approval would be needed only if a proposed revision could result in a significant change in the previously identified impacts.
In September 1990, the MMS conditionally approved Mobil's exploration plan to explore Manteo Block 467. The State of North Carolina denied consistency on Mobil's Exploration Plan and discharge permit in November 1990. Mobil appealed the decision in 1990 and in September 1994, the U.S. Department of Commerce upheld the State's decision. Mobil appealed that decision in January 1995. In June 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Mobil/Marathon that a "taking" occurred. In July 2000, a District Court Judge dismissed Mobil's litigation against Commerce Department and North Carolina, the Unit SOO was terminated, and the primary term clock commenced on the (then) eight remaining leases, all of which were relinquished in November 2000.
The Sierra Club, environmentalists etc. tied up the oil leases in court and the democratic Congress passed new regulations and the legal obstructions stopped all oil exploration all along the eastern seaboard of the U.S.
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