How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
DantesPeak said:
Quote:
We already had gasoline shortages last year in many US and Canada locations, if you didn't notice. Where were you?
The only reason we didn’t get widespread shortages last year (which was unknown at the time to the members of the forum) was because the US was able to import HUGE amounts of finished product. With problems now wide spread over the entire globe, the chances of that happening again this year are very, very slim!
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1518 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
shortonoil wrote:
DantesPeak said:
Quote:
We already had gasoline shortages last year in many US and Canada locations, if you didn't notice. Where were you?
The only reason we didn’t get widespread shortages last year (which was unknown at the time to the members of the forum) was because the US was able to import HUGE amounts of finished product. With problems now wide spread over the entire globe, the chances of that happening again this year are very, very slim!
Very interesting. I'm always learning something new on this site.
Thanks guys. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3797 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
eastbay wrote:
Large displacement scooters are not for mileage... I'm not quite sure exactly what they're really for... heh... but if you're serious about getting mileage from a scooter get one with the engine at 150cc or less.
The 500cc and up scooters generally get worse mileage than a Harley Sportster.
I'm not quite sure exactly what they're really for... heh...
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4027 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
vision-master wrote:
eastbay wrote:
Large displacement scooters are not for mileage... I'm not quite sure exactly what they're really for... heh... but if you're serious about getting mileage from a scooter get one with the engine at 150cc or less.
The 500cc and up scooters generally get worse mileage than a Harley Sportster.
I'm not quite sure exactly what they're really for... heh...
For being an Outlaw....
Lol..... out 'something', that's for sure. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4227 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
I paid 3.38 gallon tonite ... talk about cheap! Here in town its 3.58, but across the river at Fleet Farm its 3.38 (with .04 coupon)... Wish i would've needed more gas. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3797 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
frankthetank wrote:
I paid 3.38 gallon tonite ... talk about cheap! Here in town its 3.58, but across the river at Fleet Farm its 3.38 (with .04 coupon)... Wish i would've needed more gas.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4227 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
Gas up to 3.60 now.
Noticed a scooter at the bar that i drive by everyday. First time i've seen that. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Nov 27, 2004 Posts: 173 Location: Federal City, USA
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
TroyBoy1208 wrote:
Quote:
Gas at my corner gas station is at 3.69. Manager said they are betting which arrives first: Memorial day or 4.00 unleaded...
I heard the same thing from the gas station guy over the weekend as I snapped a picture of the big board, which has $3.82 regular unleaded.
Personally I think Memorial Day will come before $4.00 gas in DC, but it'll be close (and pointless in the great scheme of things). _________________ Business as usual is about to get unusual.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
We all think $4 by Memorial Day, certainly $4 this summer is highly expected and will most likely happen.
Last night we got our fisrts taste of the mid to long range predictions. Even some of our local economists were on the news, and on record now saying that the trend is up and that we will eventually see $10 per gallong. That spooked some folks. The timeline they are looking at is 5 to 10 years rather than 2 to 3. I was glad to here it and sad also. Now I suppose that a weakening dollar and strong wage growth in the next five years could make it an even swing, but I think the tone was actually a limits to growth thing. Demand overseas is outstripping supply growth which has been flat for a few years now. Within two years if not this summer we will see the MSM and breakaway groups of economists talking openly about peak oil.
I suspect that the warmer weather in a few weeks will start us off into the superspike which could happen later this summer or next summer with prices approaching $200 to $250 and then a fall back into the $130 to $150 range. The result of course is a deep recession that simply does not go away.
the job cuts will come in a few ways
1) outsourcing
2) mergers
3) bankruptcies
Stagflation will eat away at buying power while the bottom third of American society suffers in silence for quite a while. The people making more than the median wage in their area will not be badly affected even though the price spike comes if they are ware of what is happening. My wife and I have already limited our fuel consumption to between $50 and $100 per month. People making over $70k as a family can probably survive $10 gasoline and keep doing alot of what they do. (if only I we were making that much.)
As certain luxuries are cut back there will be booms for other entertainment, the step down will be gradual or sudden depending on who you are and where you are.
The upper classes will feel it as their assets underperform but they will be able to weather the storm for a long time if they get some tangible assets like a euro portfolio etc.
The dollar will continue to fall. What we see hapening is the system trying to adjust to changes in supply and demand for a primary energy source. It will be bad, but not the apocalypse yet. Much worse is coming than what we will see in the next three years. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
June gasoline futures rose 5.24 cents to $3.1053 a gallon after earlier setting a new trading record of $3.1163
I also read an article today about a Canadian refinery company who lost money last quarter.
Refinery Article
Quote:
First-quarter results of Delek were negatively affected by 68% increase in crude prices, lower gasoline margins at the refinery and higher retail fuel prices at the convenience stores, all of which were offset by higher refinery throughputs.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
The way things are gaining momentum now, $4/gal avg this summer appears certain. Really sucks if you're driving a high-compression or deisel this summer :S
Troyboy1208 wrote:
New records are now the norm. 3.10 wholesales is about 3.70-3.80 I would think.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3325 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
jbrovont wrote:
The way things are gaining momentum now, $4/gal avg this summer appears certain. Really sucks if you're driving a high-compression or deisel this summer :S
Troyboy1208 wrote:
New records are now the norm. 3.10 wholesales is about 3.70-3.80 I would think.
If I had a high compression engine I would be seeking out E-85 with no hesitation, the high octane is taylor made as cheaper fuel for preformance engines. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
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