| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
charliebrownout
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 189
|
 Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
  |
|
| Pops wrote: | | threadbear wrote: | | Could both be happening simultaneously? Of course. |
I agree. |
That's all I'm getting at. I just can't shake the feeling that the problem is much more dynamic, meaning, it is BOTH. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ludi
Expert
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 11394
Location: Village of Idiots
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| charliebrownout wrote: |
That's all I'm getting at. I just can't shake the feeling that the problem is much more dynamic, meaning, it is BOTH. |
Does that change your own response to it at all, I mean, are your plans and actions different if there is more than one cause?
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charliebrownout
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| mefistofeles wrote: | | Quote: | | It seems like this oil problem really plays well for rich folks and really screws poor folks. It is like some kind of beautiful gift for the uber-rich. It's like an industrial strength can of Raid for their human cockroach problem. Isn't it? |
I would disagree on that count. I think peak oil will help farmers and people who engage in small scale manufacturing.
The highest paying jobs today tend to be doctors and lawyers. Why, because these professions have benefitted the least from advancedments in technology and productivity. In other words a doctor can't treat more patients today than he could 100 years ago likewise the same is probably true with a lawyer.
Manufacturing on the other hand has benefitted immensely from the energy provided by oil as had food production via mechanization and fertilizers.
Well what happens during peak oil far less energy is going to be available for agriculture and manufacturing? Manufactured goods are going to be very scarce. Things like shoe repair are actually going to make a big come back because it won't be possible to simply throw away a pair of shoes when they become too old.
Manufacturing will become much more expensive and probably far more labor intensive. The actual labor input costs will go up tremendously.
I think many rich people will be hurt because people who owns things such as malls and factories could be totally SOL.
Granted being rich will give you more options than being poor but I feel that having physical resources or skills in hand will be worth alot more when peak oil hits than "money".
Peak oil will in effect be a revolution than changes the balance of power within societies and between nations. Land owners and small manufacturers will be the main beneficiaries , at least the ones that I see. |
That would be nice: a Biblical world turned over to peace and ploughshares. It would be a good thing, if that were the case.
I just don't see anyone who has ever aspired to any sort of power giving up that easily or letting themselves go over the proverbial cliff. Nope, can't picture it.
Death may be the great equalizer, but I don't think Peak Oil will be--even if it brings with it copious amounts of death. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
americandream
Light Sweet Crude
![]()
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1631
Location: kiwibush
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
I'm flabbergasted that at $120 a barrell, we're still asking the question, "Has peak arrived".
_________________
Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charliebrownout
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| Ludi wrote: | | charliebrownout wrote: |
That's all I'm getting at. I just can't shake the feeling that the problem is much more dynamic, meaning, it is BOTH. |
Does that change your own response to it at all, I mean, are your plans and actions different if there is more than one cause? |
No, of course not. I'm not arguing against Peak Oil at all. I'm not even anti-Doomer. I'm just trying to get a handle on the full picture out of my own curiosity. No offense intended--if there was any.
Peak Oil effects are obviously hitting--manipulated by power or not.
My gut reaction is that if it is just a supply problem we're screwed, if it is a supply problem exacerbated by the selfish interests powerful entities we're super-screwed.
It's kind of like seeing the four horsemen of the apocalypse riding up and then, as they get closer, realizing there aren't just four but a whole freaking cavalry of equally bad horsemen headed your way.
Don't get me wrong: My "Fark" is still engaged. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludi
Expert
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 11394
Location: Village of Idiots
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
Heck no, not sure how I seemed offended! 
I was just asking about your own plans and actions, is all.
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charliebrownout
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| americandream wrote: | | I'm flabbergasted that at $120 a barrell, we're still asking the question, "Has peak arrived". |
Who asked that? Not me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
charliebrownout
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| Ludi wrote: | Heck no, not sure how I seemed offended!
I was just asking about your own plans and actions, is all. |
You didn't  I was just saying that so everyone knows I'm on the right page.
I think, too, the situation of BOTH would explain some of the confusion on the part of otherwise bright people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludi
Expert
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 11394
Location: Village of Idiots
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
I think we can pretty much guarantee selfish powerful people won't make it any easier on the little guy. I'm as much worried (or more) about what selfish - or even well-meaning - PTB might do to "make things better." 
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mos6507
Fission
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 2497
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| Ludi wrote: | | I'm as much worried (or more) about what selfish - or even well-meaning - PTB might do to "make things better." |
What they definitely won't do is work the demand side of the equation other than making useless statements like "we have to get off of oil". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newfie
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 218
Location: US East Coast
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
I see it differently. Peak Oil is A problem, not THE problem
THE problem is Over Population.
The reason we are not dealing with it is that we are genetically programed to promote our genes and our population.
It is against our nature. We can no more control our population than breath water.
_________________
When going through hell, keep going! Churchill
Nothing is ever lost by courtesy. It is the the cheapest of pleasures, costs nothing, and conveys much. E Wiman
I know there’s no solution, so I just enjoy what’s here and I enjoy the journey G Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pops
Moderator
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 6349
Location: My Grandkids' Farm
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| Ludi wrote: | | I was just asking about your own plans and actions, is all. |
_________________
Make a plan and work it: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludi
Expert
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 11394
Location: Village of Idiots
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
| Newfie wrote: |
THE problem is Over Population. |
THE problem which will be solved by collapse and die-off.
http://anthropik.com/2005/10/thesis-12-civilization-must-always-grow/
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newfie
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 218
Location: US East Coast
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
Yes
_________________
When going through hell, keep going! Churchill
Nothing is ever lost by courtesy. It is the the cheapest of pleasures, costs nothing, and conveys much. E Wiman
I know there’s no solution, so I just enjoy what’s here and I enjoy the journey G Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
americandream
Light Sweet Crude
![]()
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1631
Location: kiwibush
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil: Psychological? Political? Physical? |
|
|
We in the west have scoffed the planet's resources and you yak on about the population numbers of those who haven't even lined up at the trough of "development" when the games all but over. What are you, stupid?
_________________
Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
