Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
phaster wrote:
to put the number of "rich" people into perspective, I read someplace that there are on 9 million people who are "millionaires" defined if I recall as people with a million dollar net worth.... or put another way out of all the people on this planet, a person has a 0.0014 chance of being a millionare....
Apprently, there are over eight million millionaires just in the United States. See this 2007 item: Associated Content:
"Recent figures show that this number is actually much higher. Dr. Bill Belew of PanAsianBizreports that the U.S. has 8.9 million households worth at least 1 million dollars. This is compared to China with 300,000 millionaires and Russia with 88,000.
Even Canada has 350,000 millionaires, see C.A. magazine
A million dollars is not what it used to be. A middle aged family owning their own home, with retirement savings on top has often over $ 1 million in assets.
Not that this number is the primary issue with the story, but I would think there are a lot more millionaires in the world as a whole.
It is illustrating to see that even materially poor people can enjoy their lives.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
There is no question that the populations of the developed world have it good. The problem before us is the projected rapid collapse of those civilizations. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
joeltrout wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
Yes pup. I agree.
But why send them all the way across the oceans?
How about a 2 day trip to Mexico City?
We also do Saturday work projects in less fortunate areas of los angeles. Most major cities have areas that are equivalent to third world countries.
joeltrout
suggested this in the US fourm, but didn't get any response, so what public service draft program (similar to the old military draft).
The program would be run akin to the "peace corps" but for a short time period of something like 4 months so that it is not all much of an inconvenience or as disruptive as a 4 year tour in the military, but the time needs to be long enough to actually get some work done. The objective of the "public service draft" would be to improve the basic infrastructure of a country, which would be geared toward having long term economic and environmental benefits.
For example say a type "a" college bound student get their number called up who has been exposed to all the benefits of a wealth suburban lifestyle, such as all the college prep classes, soccer camp, connections to classmastes from higher social economic levels. What I think would be an eye opener for an individual such as this brought up in a pretty affluent life style would be to have this person tutor under-privileged elementary aged school kids. That way both groups gain some benefit and insight.
Another example, I think would be kind of a learning experence is take inner city youth who have never seen or experenced the great outdoors and give them an opportunity to learn a skill such as maintaining buildings in a national park. I think this would be a win/win situation, because youth never exposed to the out doors get a chance to gain working skills out doors and public park infrastructure is maintained, something like
For the most part people tend to stick to their own kind (weather its an economic or ethnic class) and have very little intereaction with dissimilar social or economic groups. A solid public infrastructure allows the enconomy to thrive, so I feel a public service draft would be a long term investment in the future of this country... _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Last edited by phaster on Sun May 04, 2008 9:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
opps double post... _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Last edited by phaster on Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
Cashmere wrote:
Quote:
Money creates the poor and the rich.
That, and, in many cases, work ethic.
its not that simple, there are many poor people who work hard, and I have to admit if I had to be categorized by my 2007 tax return I'd be "rich" because I made too much money to get political panderinging money (aka an economic stimulus check), but I'd also also consider my self lazy because I do what ever I can to actually do anything productive. I think I could be lots more richer, if I didn't procrastinate so much (for example instead typing this long message, I could actually be doing some stock market analysis looking at ways to profit from the massive mismanagement made my politicians and business leaders).
The big problem I see is people's priorities! I studied physics at university, so I tend to look at life in terms of equations, there is always a demand on one side and supply on the other. Didn't take any economics classes, but in the past few years I've been fascinated by the topic because it attempts to quantify how and why people make life choices.
I found an interesting paper about "Conspicuous Consumption and Race" that is a partial answer why this country is so short sighted...
ABSTRACT: Using nationally representative data on consumption, we show that Blacks and Hispanics devote larger shares of their expenditure bundles to visible goods (clothing, jewelry, and cars) than do comparable Whites. Moreover, we show that accounting for differences in reference group income characteristics explains most of the racial difference in visible consumption. We conclude with an assessment of the role of conspicuous consumption in explaining lower spending by racial minorities on items likes health and education, as well as their lower rates of wealth accumulation
it is my belief looking at various sources of data like the paper cited above, that an economy like the one we have in the USA that is 70% driven by the consumer and consumption is unsustainable! The big problem is at all social economic levels is people buy lots of crap thinking it is a way to buy emotional happiness....
Personally I realized long ago that money is nothing more than a tool, that can be leveraged to make even more money, while at the same time be used to improve society and help save natural resources... (basically this is the triple bottom line theory).
An example from my own life, of how I use the triple bottom line is I just got done totally redoing one of my apartment buildings here in San Diego.
Basically one project that was completed last year was a 1920's era 12 unit apartment building which was torn down to the studs and rebuilt "literally" from the ground up to be the most energy efficient and thus environmentally friendly apartment building in the area. Work done on the building included a new electrical system, new plumbing, pre-wired for cable/dish-network and cat5 for multiple phone lines, etc. Each unit has a new tile bathroom with new fixtures, an all new tiled kitchen with custom built cabinets (half of the units have a walk in pantry), new kitchen appliances, walk in closet with organizers, other new custom built storage spaces, new floors, etc.
Because drought(s) will become more sever in the western part of the United States and seriously impact the San Diego area. I opted for low-water use or xeriscaping principles were used in place of traditional turf landscaping because landscaping accounts for about 50 percent of San Diego's residential water usage.
Actually what I did for landscaping was plant citrius trees and strawberries in large terraced planters. Would have liked to try and plant other crops like in an urban farm
but since its a rental property, that would have been just a bit too much...
Basically when I opted to look at the triple bottom line, I leveraged a bank loan into something very profitable and sustainable. The environmental benefit is I'm providing housing that uses less than 1/2 of the water and energy of comparable units in the area (so the carbon foot print of individuals who live in that building is below that of not only typical americans, it's going to be below that of many europeans when I add solar panels in the near future). I'm getting above market rent rates rates from tennants in that building, so I'm pretty happy from the $$$ standpoint. And if ya look at the fusion of new young blood brought into the neighborhood, I'd say that part of how the local society wins. _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
How about we just educate them, minus all the stupid suggestions. If the people were educated properly in the United States, many problems would vanish. Don't blame the fools, blame the ones making them so.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember (...)
it's really getting tired that posters asume that this is either a USA forum, or a "1st world" forum.
I live in Costa Rica, a "3rd world" country. My life doesn't suck because of the geographic location I'm in... my life doesn't suck either way, I'm happy "even if living in a 3rd world country". _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
zensui wrote:
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember (...)
it's really getting tired that posters asume that this is either a USA forum, or a "1st world" forum.
I live in Costa Rica, a "3rd world" country. My life doesn't suck because of the geographic location I'm in... my life doesn't suck either way, I'm happy "even if living in a 3rd world country".
ya didn't read the part where I added a qualifier,
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember "There is nothing simple about living on less than a buck a day, which 1.2 billion people do, or on two bucks a day, as three billion people do. Income of $6 a day puts a person in the middle class in developing countries, but only 400 million people now qualify."
I first went down to explore your neck of the woods back in the '80, wow am I getting old.
anyway I also managed to stop in Nicaragua and Honduras and back then things there were just a bit more exciting than costa rica. Compared to your country which never did have a banana republic military, or massive slums, like I've seen in asia and in other parts of central and south america, etc., Costa rica is pretty darn stable and rich in the grand scheme of things and not what I consider 3rd world. _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
phaster wrote:
zensui wrote:
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember (...)
it's really getting tired that posters asume that this is either a USA forum, or a "1st world" forum.
I live in Costa Rica, a "3rd world" country. My life doesn't suck because of the geographic location I'm in... my life doesn't suck either way, I'm happy "even if living in a 3rd world country".
ya didn't read the part where I added a qualifier,
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember "There is nothing simple about living on less than a buck a day, which 1.2 billion people do, or on two bucks a day, as three billion people do. Income of $6 a day puts a person in the middle class in developing countries, but only 400 million people now qualify."
Ah... fair enough then.
phaster wrote:
I first went down to explore your neck of the woods back in the '80, wow am I getting old.
anyway I also managed to stop in Nicaragua and Honduras and back then things there were just a bit more exciting than costa rica. Compared to your country which never did have a banana republic military, or massive slums, like I've seen in asia and in other parts of central and south america, etc., Costa rica is pretty darn stable and rich in the grand scheme of things and not what I consider 3rd world.
Actually I skiped the "relocalization" step after becoming PO-aware. For me Costa Rica is close to a paradise, compared to other countries... and if it really gets shitty, it will be a place I will gladly die... but still my preparations are mostly mental, I'm getting close to the "nothing else to do in this life (spiritualy)" point _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1469 Location: Columbia, South Carolina
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
zensui wrote:
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember (...)
it's really getting tired that posters asume that this is either a USA forum, or a "1st world" forum.
I live in Costa Rica, a "3rd world" country. My life doesn't suck because of the geographic location I'm in... my life doesn't suck either way, I'm happy "even if living in a 3rd world country".
Actually Costa Rican is the 13th happiest country in the world (US is 23rd).
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty well off
Narz wrote:
zensui wrote:
phaster wrote:
just thought I'd remenind people reading this post, in the grand scheme of things you're pretty will off!
don't know how many of you have traveled in parts of the third world, but life there really sucks and if you think you have problems then just remember (...)
it's really getting tired that posters asume that this is either a USA forum, or a "1st world" forum.
I live in Costa Rica, a "3rd world" country. My life doesn't suck because of the geographic location I'm in... my life doesn't suck either way, I'm happy "even if living in a 3rd world country".
Actually Costa Rican is the 13th happiest country in the world (US is 23rd).
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