If someone wants to view Buddhism as a religion I certainly have no problem with it. It all boils down to how one defines religion. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 9354 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
eastbay wrote:
It all boils down to how one defines religion.
Yep. Even Christians say Christianity isn't a religion. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
AlwaysThere wrote:
zensui wrote:
You phrased your question in a too generic way. What is "this"? Is it Buddhism? Karma? Meditation? Nirvana?
And you're underestimating humanity while overestimating deities. Maybe in another life you will not be filled with anger and hate fuel (dogma).
I am asking this:
Outside of making a physical, earthly impact, Does your belief system have any eternal implications ? Does it impact only this plane of physical existence ?
I am very interested in the Mt. Everest region, those people are Budhist's are they not ?(...)
Well yes, it has spiritual consequences, in fact most consequences of Buddhism are spiritual. For me personally, the consequence is an eternal life as boddhinagami, but this will be proved after I die not before.
I can not speak for people on the Himalayas, and don't see the relevance of this question. There are millions of Buddhists elsewhere. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
eastbay wrote:
(...)
No, I wasn't kidding. Zensui and I may differ here a bit, but certainly in a friendly manner. IMO and in the opinion of most of us Buddhists, Buddhism is about as far from a religion as one can get. That doesn't mean we Buddhists have a problem with religions, in fact, as long as a religion preaches non-anger, peace, metta, auspicious coexistence... among a few other things, I would be quite comfortable with it.
It depends on the definition of religion. If religion implies dogma and ritualistic believes, then Buddhism is not a religion. One of the chains that ties humans to suffering is:
Attachment to rites and rituals (dogma) _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
eastbay wrote:
No, I wasn't kidding. Zensui and I may differ here a bit, but certainly in a friendly manner. IMO and in the opinion of most of us Buddhists, Buddhism is about as far from a religion as one can get. That doesn't mean we Buddhists have a problem with religions, in fact, as long as a religion preaches non-anger, peace, metta, auspicious coexistence... among a few other things, I would be quite comfortable with it.
I would say that Buddhism is best understood by the western mind as method. It's a way of doing things, a way of thinking about things, a way of approaching things.
It is not an end in itself. It's a path to travel that may allow a person to arrive at a state of enlightenment by a shorter journey than other paths.
No one worships Buddha. The thought of that is actually amusing.
To me, a Christian who approached his faith using Buddhist techniques would have the potential for being a person of much understanding.
One way of reading Jesus's message is that he was bringing Buddhist ideas to his part of the world, though his adherents obviously interpreted his message in a different way.
To the west, it is a philosophy then. But I will keep using religion, because it's one example of a non-dogmatic religion.
Jesus may be the Metteya Buddha. Christianism and Buddhism can be mutually enriched, if Christians where not dogmatic. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
If I had one wish, I might wish that people would give up the preoccupation with immortality.
It has made for a lot of interesting mythology and art, but I am surprised that by this time more people do not see the arrogance that is necessary to believe in immortality.
People compare a finite lifespan to immortality and find that thinking of life as finite makes them sad and hopeless, while immortality gets them excited and happy.
However, if we compare a finite lifespan, not to immortality, but to never having existed at all, then all of the sudden a finite lifespan seems like an amazing gift.
Rather than saying "what will be left of me when I am gone?", we should say "what is left of me while I am here?"
I have always found that when I am truly living in the present, really here in this moment, the issue of what happens after death is meaningless.
It's like going to the Super Bowl and after every single play asking "what are we going to do after the game?" This kind of preoccupation actually soils the moments in which we do have life to live. _________________
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
If I had one wish, I might wish that people would give up the preoccupation with immortality.
It has made for a lot of interesting mythology and art, but I am surprised that by this time more people do not see the arrogance that is necessary to believe in immortality.
People compare a finite lifespan to immortality and find that thinking of life as finite makes them sad and hopeless, while immortality gets them excited and happy.
However, if we compare a finite lifespan, not to immortality, but to never having existed at all, then all of the sudden a finite lifespan seems like an amazing gift.
Rather than saying "what will be left of me when I am gone?", we should say "what is left of me while I am here?"
I have always found that when I am truly living in the present, really here in this moment, the issue of what happens after death is meaningless.
It's like going to the Super Bowl and after every single play asking "what are we going to do after the game?" This kind of preoccupation actually soils the moments in which we do have life to live.
It's all about the now. And about death I have already posted that I'm content with the 3 possible outcomes. But, if you could chose an immortal life, what will you do with it? It's 1 of the possibilities, but I'm content too with cessation of consciousness or with unity with the whole/tao/force/source. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
zensui wrote:
But, if you could choose an immortal life, what will you do with it?
Maybe form a book club with a bunch of vampires.
lol, good answer... but you're also chosing the form (...I guess it's sort of implied). I will chose a human-like ethereal form that goes near a star every few decades to "eat light", then travel among solar systems and galaxies. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
BigTex wrote:
zensui wrote:
But, if you could choose an immortal life, what will you do with it?
Maybe form a book club with a bunch of vampires.
lol, good answer... but you're also chosing the form (...I guess it's sort of implied). I will chose a human-like ethereal form that goes near a star every few decades to "eat light", then travel among solar systems and galaxies.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 1624 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Ludi wrote:
eastbay wrote:
It all boils down to how one defines religion.
Yep. Even Christians say Christianity isn't a religion.
There are many branches of Buddhism. Buddha didn't mean it as a religion but as a moral teaching (a system for addressing dukkha, a.k.a. existential suffering). In that sense it was a philosophy, in ancient times philosophy was quite practical and aimed at attaining virtue.
You can still find something close to this original form in Hinayana (e.g. in Nepal, Burma, Thailand etc).
The more popular form after the (Eastern) middle ages is Mahayana, which was mostly elaborated in Tibet and later China, Japan (Zen) etc. This itself has many branches and in particular there is a form based on devotion, which is addressed to those who don't want to make the very harsh monastic commitments of proper Buddhism.
Notice that Buddha refused to pronounce himself on any metaphysical questions such as the existence of a soul, the theory of Brahman-Atman, reincarnation etc. He was concerned only with providing an answer to dukkha, and viewed the rest of the discussion as a largely academic exercise. As in Christianity, a very large number of legends have developed about him after his death, but one can find the core of his teachings in the so-called Pali Canon, which plays a role similar to the Gospels in Christianity. There is detailed scholarship of those texts as in Christianity and attempts to reconstruct Buddha's original message.
As in Christianity, there were schisms among schools etc starting about 100 years after his death, and little is known with certainty about "early Buddhism".
Certain schools of Mahayana departed quite a bit from the original Buddhist message, in particular elaborating a complex metaphysics and set of mystical practices etc. Much of what Westerners know as Buddhism is of this type, given that such practices and theories seem to attract more people. An opposite school is Zen, which attempted to simplify things to the maximum.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 1624 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Jack wrote:
This simply means that the victims should be neutralized in such a way, and to such a degree, that they no longer pose a threat.
Then their families, people, neighbors, relatives, descendants will not forget. Once you proved yourself capable of evil, people will remember that. It's very simple and you can see it working throughout history. That's an example of Karma.
btu2012 wrote:
This simply uses religion to compel people to "play nice".
I don't know what religion has to do with what I said. Assume you die, period (no afterlife whatsoever). What are you trying to maximize during this finite interval called your personal life ? The rest of what you say is irrelevant to my point.
Quote:
My game? Simple enough. Complete the mission. What is the mission? Strictly my business.
That's the point precisely. What's the "mission" which sets the goals to maximize ? Is this a rational thing or are you simply irrational in your own personal way ?
Btu _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Tue May 13, 2008 8:56 am; edited 4 times in total
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 1624 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Jack wrote:
So some 18 year old joins the military because there are no other jobs out there. He is naive, so he believes the recruiter.
He gets sent over there. He's scared. He's tired.
The fellow driving the HUMVEE gets too close to an IED. It goes off, ripping the 18 year old's limbs off, blowing out an eye, and numerous burns over, say, 15% of his body. (Just 15% - he got lucky!). It was his first day over there....
He finally gets sorta-kinda patched together. His girl comes to see him. She promises to write. She won't. But she will have nightmares....
And that's Karma, is it?
My, my. What a philosophy.
And I thought I was the sick puppy...
Jack, your softer self shows though in this post. I clearly detect empathy and even moral outrage.
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