Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3016 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
dohboi wrote:
Most of the MSM will stay in denial mode, and they're explanations and rationalizations will get wackier and zanier, but many will believe because they need to. ...
People in MSM are no different than the general public. They, for the most part, will deny that what is happening is anything but a bump in the road; they will, as they have done for years now, report to the public only what they are permitted to present by TPTB. The Fourth Estate has been infiltrated, contaminated and almost completely morphed into a children's collection of fantasies.
dohboi wrote:
We are so beyond screwed.
You are so right. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Ferretgirl, Amazingly cute ferret. We have lots of wild mink around here, and they are remarkably strong and tough as hell- wolverine like. I imagine ferrets are much the same, cute but tough!
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3016 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
threadbear wrote:
Ferretgirl, Amazingly cute ferret. We have lots of wild mink around here, and they are remarkably strong and tough as hell- wolverine like. I imagine ferrets are much the same, cute but tough!
Ferrets, minks, wolverines, river otters-all the same family. Ferrets are just domesticated, charming (ancestors of the future tribbles! ), and totally adorable! _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Nov 07, 2005 Posts: 551 Location: London, UK
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Ferretlover wrote:
Ferrets, minks, wolverines, river otters-all the same family. Ferrets are just domesticated, charming (ancestors of the future tribbles! ), and totally adorable!
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Starvid wrote:
shortonoil wrote:
This is not about oil, it about energy.
Oh my god, here we go again.
This is not about energy, of which we have immense amounts, or even cheap energy, of which we have plenty, but about liquid fuels in general and cheap liquid fuels in particular.
No it isn't. The vacuum left by the decrease in available oil will usher in a new level of d00m that we could neverdealwith. Clearly, there isn't any way to somehow use less oil w/o spending years changing over the vehicle fleet. Clearly, even though peak efficiency for just about any new engine, diesel or gas, is around or above 40%, it would be unpossible to improve it from ~20% right now, or simply use less of it. Speaking of demand, nothing can curb that, except for maybe high prices. _________________
pstarr wrote:
I regularly call on my "Mother" and her ample bosom
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
How can America take everyone else down with the ship, do all those other countries have to have America's permission to minimize oil consumption or something? _________________
pstarr wrote:
I regularly call on my "Mother" and her ample bosom
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2523 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
If those numbers had been compared to 1970 or 1975 instead of 1980, they would have said -50 % instead of -32 %.
The US is much like Sweden. A big pretty sparsely populated country were people love big strong gas guzzling cars. If the US just does what Sweden did they could first get rid of that +21 % increase (go from 20 mbpd to 16) and then halve consumption, like we did. That would mean consuming 8 mbpd, pretty much eliminating oil imports entirely.
That 12 mbpd cut, taken togheter with the possible saving of 15 mbpd just in emerging market substitution of non-transport sector oil to coal, gas and electricity would go quite a bit.
27 mbpd is not chump change. It's almost the oil output of OPEC. Off course, these changes don't happen overnight. But then, neither does oil depletion. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Starvid wrote:
If the US just does what Sweden did they could first get rid of that +21 % increase (go from 20 mbpd to 16) and then halve consumption, like we did. That would mean consuming 8 mbpd, pretty much eliminating oil imports entirely.
That 12 mbpd cut, taken togheter with the possible saving of 15 mbpd just in emerging market substitution of non-transport sector oil to coal, gas and electricity would go quite a bit.
It is a good point regarding the excess in the US consumption, however, passenger cars account for 40% of the toal US consumption of oil. Also, natural gas depletes, too. Please redo your calculations based on these corrections.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
GoghGoner wrote:
It is a good point regarding the excess in the US consumption, however, passenger cars account for 40% of the toal US consumption of oil..
56% of all passenger vehicles are cars, and 38% are "Other 2 axle, 4 tire vehicles" presumably SUVs/trucks. So... Unless your source meant passenger vehicles and said cars, we likely consume more with passenger vehicle use. _________________
pstarr wrote:
I regularly call on my "Mother" and her ample bosom
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
yesplease wrote:
GoghGoner wrote:
It is a good point regarding the excess in the US consumption, however, passenger cars account for 40% of the toal US consumption of oil..
56% of all passenger vehicles are cars, and 38% are "Other 2 axle, 4 tire vehicles" presumably SUVs/trucks. So... Unless your source meant passenger vehicles and said cars, we likely consume more with passenger vehicle use.
The use of petroleum products as vehicle fuels is classified as "transportation" use. In the United States, in contrast to other regions of the world, about 2/3 of all oil use is for transportation, as shown in the graph. (In most of the rest of the world, oil is more commonly used for space heating and power generation than for transportation.) Gasoline, in turn, accounts for about 2/3 of the total oil used for transportation in the United States. Other petroleum products commonly used for transportation include diesel fuel (used for trucks, buses, railroads, some vessels, and a few passenger autos), jet fuel, and residual fuel oil (used for tankers and other large vessels).
So you have 67% for use in transportation and 61% of that 67% is gasoline use which equates to 40%. Passenger vehicle would be a better term to use than passenger car in this case.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Earlier in the day-time over here, Bloomberg was mumbling something about oil prices due for a correction because it had gone up "too far too fast" or something of the sort. I sort of grumbled and remarked to my friend that we'll probably do the reverse.
And here we are, it's night-time this side and morning-time New York side, and with the brand new day, we have a brand new record. Crude oil on NYMEX just went someplace north of $126.30 a while ago. _________________ Live quotes - crude oil, gold and currencies
http://www.post1.net/lowem/page/livequotes
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
The NYMEX CSO page just got updated.
And the new record is $126.40.
Okay y'all Americans can take over now. I might wake up to a brand new record or a brand new world, who knows _________________ Live quotes - crude oil, gold and currencies
http://www.post1.net/lowem/page/livequotes
Joined: Apr 08, 2007 Posts: 437 Location: Cleburne, TX, USA
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Another Record ($126.20)
Quote:
Okay y'all Americans can take over now. I might wake up to a brand new record or a brand new world, who knows
We'll hold down the fort while you're away =).
Yes, the record is indeed #126.40 but we've backed away from the highs today so far. More rumblings in the US press that this may not be a bubble but may actually be fundamentals. Waking up a little at a time.
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), and totally adorable!
