Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Starvid wrote:
cube wrote:
However I've said it before and I'll say it again. Until I can walk into a car dealership and buy an EV car for cheaper than an ICE car:
I will never buy an EV car.
I think my opinion represents 95% of the population.
Don't you think electric cars deserve a certain price premium considering their much lower operation and maintenance costs? At least according to discounted cash flow analysis. Bu how many people do a DCFA when they buy a car?
That sounds fair enough. For example if somebody built a $20,000 EV car that had the same performance characteristics as a $12,000 ICE car then yeah I think that sounds like a good deal. However my gut feeling tells me that will never happen.
I'm not a fan of EV cars. If things got really bad for me financially speaking and I needed a car.... I sure as hell wouldn't go out and buy a $90K or $60K or even a $30K EV car. I'd just buy a used ICE car for $7,000.
Technically speaking you are right. These guys didn't invent anything "new". The only "new" thing these guys did was being brave enough to start an EV car company that is trying to sell a "normal" looking car without government subsidies.
But you've heard of the saying: "The only difference between bravery and stupidity is the end result."
Joined: Aug 18, 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Belgium, Europe
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
I'm all for the electric car, too bad we lost 20 years
nice technology and all but this is a good example where the optimists forget the 'order of magnitude' factor
you just don't replace hundred of millions cars overnight it takes decades, further more, all these new cars will need metal, copper, plastics, will need to be manufactured is heated/cooled factories...
It's not a solution _________________ www.peakoil.be
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4963 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
eastbay wrote:
vision-master wrote:
Another toy for the weathly.
Yup. Jive nonsense.
Next...
This car costs $90,000
I thought it cost $100,000. Why are we even bothering to discuss a toy for the rich anyhow? I mean, even Graeme on a very optimistic day won't touch this silly nonsense. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
sameu wrote:
I'm all for the electric car, too bad we lost 20 years
nice technology and all but this is a good example where the optimists forget the 'order of magnitude' factor
you just don't replace hundred of millions cars overnight it takes decades, further more, all these new cars will need metal, copper, plastics, will need to be manufactured is heated/cooled factories...
It's not a solution
Fortunately, oil production doesn't drop to zero overnight either. Sure, new vehicles take a long time to turn around, but in terms of switching from liquid fuels to alternatives, China, who many have said will only exacerbate demand, has seen huge increases in the sale of two wheel EVs. Sure, what we'll likely spend in Iraq could've bought a small efficient EV for everyone in America, but then where would all those big whigs make their addition billions in profits?
In any event, expect to see way more in the way of EVs worldwide if oil goes to ~$200-250/bbl, which it should in the next decade if we are at or near peak.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
eastbay wrote:
Why are we even bothering to discuss a toy for the rich anyhow? I mean, even Graeme on a very optimistic day won't touch this silly nonsense.
Because if EVs are competing with high end low volume vehicles, odds are they could compete with high volume normal cars in mass production. That being said, they aren't probably produced because they aren't as profitable, but eventually, oil will get to the price (unless of course we don't see peak for decades) where even in low volume, they'll have such a big cost advantage over most conventional vehicles that large automakers will be forced to incorporate electrification into their vehicles in some way of face extinction. _________________
Joined: Aug 18, 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Belgium, Europe
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
yesplease wrote:
Fortunately, oil production doesn't drop to zero overnight either. Sure, new vehicles take a long time to turn around, but in terms of switching from liquid fuels to alternatives, China, who many have said will only exacerbate demand, has seen huge increases in the sale of two wheel EVs. Sure, what we'll likely spend in Iraq could've bought a small efficient EV for everyone in America, but then where would all those big whigs make their addition billions in profits?
In any event, expect to see way more in the way of EVs worldwide if oil goes to ~$200-250/bbl, which it should in the next decade if we are at or near peak.
only problem is that purchasing power is already declining in my country and the eurozone as a whole
my guess is that most people will simply not have the money, or won't be willing to make big investements when oil is at $200-250 _________________ www.peakoil.be
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
eastbay wrote:
I thought it cost $100,000. Why are we even bothering to discuss a toy for the rich anyhow? I mean, even Graeme on a very optimistic day won't touch this silly nonsense.
Because the new technology always starts with the rich.
Some good examples:
First Plasma TVs - $25000 for a 40"
First PCs - $10,000 for a glorified calculator
First TVs - One or two per neighborhood if any at all
First Cars - only a toy for the rich
In the end, let the Rich pay for the RND of their new toys. Me, I'll wait till its 1/20th the price they pay for it.
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 73 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
It is a wicked car. With a poor buissness model.
(you can't 'job it out' building vehicles)
Silicon vally execs looking for the next internet bubble.
I get irked at the company, they should be proud of using alan coconie's(sp) motor drive, it is the most sophisticated in the world.
Alan did the motor on the EV-1. At least alan is making money off these guys.
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 885 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
Starvid wrote:
cube wrote:
However I've said it before and I'll say it again. Until I can walk into a car dealership and buy an EV car for cheaper than an ICE car:
I will never buy an EV car.
I think my opinion represents 95% of the population.
Don't you think electric cars deserve a certain price premium considering their much lower operation and maintenance costs? At least according to discounted cash flow analysis. Bu how many people do a DCFA when they buy a car?
That sounds fair enough. For example if somebody built a $20,000 EV car that had the same performance characteristics as a $12,000 ICE car then yeah I think that sounds like a good deal. However my gut feeling tells me that will never happen.
I'm not a fan of EV cars. If things got really bad for me financially speaking and I needed a car.... I sure as hell wouldn't go out and buy a $90K or $60K or even a $30K EV car. I'd just buy a used ICE car for $7,000.
I agree with you, Cube, there are plenty of high gas mileage used cars out there to help people. I wouldn't give them even an $8,000 premium. I would hold that premium to about $2,000 on average. So, I guess I wouldn't pay more than $14,000 for what would be a $12,000 ICE car. It isn't going to happen with batteries. Ultracapacitors can do it, but that is probably a few years away. _________________ "Hope encourages men to take risks; men in a strong position may follow her without ruin, if not without loss. But when they stake all that they have to the last coin (for she is a spendthrift), she reveals her real self in the hour of failure."
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Seeing as we are hanging out on a morally ambivalent discussion board here, why not just invest in a cheap replica hand gun, and steal it for the cost of said hand gun, from a homosexual rich enough to buy one?
You might also consider shipping the stolen gaycar to europe and turn a nice profit: as we all know only leftist, greenie homosexuals live in europe. its almost like a chic business model for a nice good ol' redneckked doomer, who is of a strict and outspoken ultraheterosexual tendency in the sack. (ie. flag worshipping closet fag.)
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
sameu wrote:
only problem is that purchasing power is already declining in my country and the eurozone as a whole
my guess is that most people will simply not have the money, or won't be willing to make big investements when oil is at $200-250
It depends on payback time, since as long as the savings outweigh the cost of the vehicle loan, then it's still available for most. That, and there's still a great deal of discretionary spending for most. With prices where they are now, a home conversion is definitely financially worthwhile down to the low three dollar per gallon range, with mass-production undoubtedly being cheaper. As oil climbs that gap will only increase. _________________
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