But the accounting techniques used by state and local governments to balance their pension books disguise the extent of the crisis facing these retirees and the taxpayers who may ultimately be called on to pay the freight, according to a growing number of leading financial analysts.
I'm already on the public pension system.
Note: taxpayers may have to foot the bill. Not like private plans.
I'm currently looking at the possiblity of fixed 025% year increases if the fund continues to slide. In the 90's them ol farts where getting upwards of 10% increases every year.
I can't imagine being on one of those fixed rate plans. Or worse yet, living off a 401k.
Health benefits may have to go. Medical Insurance coverage is only Government policy for most that reach the rule of 90 or 30 years and out. I tried getting this HR policy in our Union contract. No way ray........
Government retirenment benefits are law by state statues.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
stands to reason that 'social workers' like cops and teachers will get screwed first from governmental irresponsibility. My bet is the politicians pensions aren't included in this fiasco.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4415 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Muhammad_al_Sahhaf wrote:
stands to reason that 'social workers' like cops and teachers will get screwed first from governmental irresponsibility. My bet is the politicians pensions aren't included in this fiasco.
You don't want to know what kind of benefits they get. Actually, I think the taxpayers may have to foot the bill, otherwise the Governor would have to sign off - total political suicide........
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
The world that I've known in the private sector has no protections for job loss, no pensions, no elaborate benefit plans. As a result, I can't identify with people who think that they should keep getting paid after they quit working. It reminds me of Mr. Bill's signature:
"The State is a wonderful invention where everyone can live at someone else's expense." _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Well, Kingcoal, the notion has been that chronically underpaid poor slobs like cops and teachers should get a little something in their old age, after all that suffering at the hands of snotty kids and underworld heathen. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Kingcoal wrote:
The world that I've known in the private sector has no protections for job loss, no pensions, no elaborate benefit plans. As a result, I can't identify with people who think that they should keep getting paid after they quit working. It reminds me of Mr. Bill's signature:
"The State is a wonderful invention where everyone can live at someone else's expense."
The pension system was devised when life expectancy was between 65 and 68 years of age. People are now living, in poor health, until they are in their eighties, and it's not just a drain on the pension system. It's an all around psychological , physical and spiritual drain, for the entire society.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4319 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
There are many fields in which you only have to work 20-30 years to draw a nice pension for life.
Military, police and fire come to mind.
Think about that: assume a life expectancy of 80 years. Out of that 80 years, only 20-30 would be spent working. The other 50-60 years would be spent living at someone else's expense. That's really something. _________________
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
It needn't have been that way, though, Threadbear. We've blown it all on Iraq and so much other waste.
The gist of your post is that lifespans have become unsustainably long, and I agree with that.
Lives are going to get shorter, meaner, more brutish. It's starting to happen precisely now. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6492 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
BigTex wrote:
There are many fields in which you only have to work 20-30 years to draw a nice pension for life.
Military, police and fire come to mind.
Think about that: assume a life expectancy of 80 years. Out of that 80 years, only 20-30 would be spent working. The other 50-60 years would be spent living at someone else's expense. That's really something.
A lot of those jobs are often miserable and entail considerable personal risk, Tex.
I support the concept of public pensions for people doing society's dirty work.
When you think about it, the police are the only thing standing between us and barbarism. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4319 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
BigTex wrote:
There are many fields in which you only have to work 20-30 years to draw a nice pension for life.
Military, police and fire come to mind.
Think about that: assume a life expectancy of 80 years. Out of that 80 years, only 20-30 would be spent working. The other 50-60 years would be spent living at someone else's expense. That's really something.
A lot of those jobs are often miserable and entail considerable personal risk, Tex.
I support the concept of public pensions for people doing society's dirty work.
When you think about it, the police are the only thing standing between us and barbarism.
I don't disagree with you.
It's just interesting that a person would be able to live 50-60 years without having to work and the rest of society would be okay with that.
Those professions have a good thing going. A VERY good thing, assuming you live to draw the pension. _________________
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1172 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
BigTex wrote:
Heineken wrote:
BigTex wrote:
There are many fields in which you only have to work 20-30 years to draw a nice pension for life.
Military, police and fire come to mind.
Think about that: assume a life expectancy of 80 years. Out of that 80 years, only 20-30 would be spent working. The other 50-60 years would be spent living at someone else's expense. That's really something.
A lot of those jobs are often miserable and entail considerable personal risk, Tex.
I support the concept of public pensions for people doing society's dirty work.
When you think about it, the police are the only thing standing between us and barbarism.
I don't disagree with you.
It's just interesting that a person would be able to live 50-60 years without having to work and the rest of society would be okay with that.
Those professions have a good thing going. A VERY good thing, assuming you live to draw the pension.
Well heck Tex, the average worker/professional only works 10 years longer at most. Round numbers-> out of college at 25, work 30 years as a cop -> retire at 55. Regular professional works somewhere between 5-10 years longer and in many cases makes far more money, perhaps a pension, perhaps a 401K, perhaps stock options.
Over an 80 year life span that isn't a huge difference in time spent working. Plus, I know many of the cop, teacher civil servant types who "retire" and continue to work at least part time.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4415 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
threadbear wrote:
Kingcoal wrote:
The world that I've known in the private sector has no protections for job loss, no pensions, no elaborate benefit plans. As a result, I can't identify with people who think that they should keep getting paid after they quit working. It reminds me of Mr. Bill's signature:
"The State is a wonderful invention where everyone can live at someone else's expense."
The pension system was devised when life expectancy was between 65 and 68 years of age. People are now living, in poor health, until they are in their eighties, and it's not just a drain on the pension system. It's an all around psychological , physical and spiritual drain, for the entire society.
Too bad for you. Daddy steered me into Public Service for a reason. For J6P that's the way to go, if'n you can stand the torture. If not for my years of Public Service I would be buggered right now. And just think, we get raises every year too!
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
I NEVER did like the idea of a pension plan. It always did sound like a scam to me.
here's the logic:
A pension plan is basically this idea that says if I give you $1 to invest; you can turn it into $2 into the future. You collect a commission fee and I live off the extra earnings after I retire.
there's a problem.
If you had the power to turn $1 into $2 then why do you need my money?
It's like the scam back in the middle ages where alchemists said they can turn lead into gold....and all they ask for payment for their services is a small amount of gold. People never learn.
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