Lebanon falls to Hezbollah

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2196 Location: Arkansas

The sword wrote:

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Legles,

You ask for Proof?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

You can read through their sources.... Here is from their own words.

http://www.likud.nl/ref24a.html

"The Hezbollah program "

"By virtue of the above, we do not constitute an organized and closed party in Lebanon. nor are we a tight political cadre. We are an umma linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad. This is why whatever touches or strikes the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Philippines and elsewhere reverberates throughout the whole Muslim umma of which we are an integral part. Our behavior is dictated to us by legal principles laid down by the light of an overall political conception defined by the leading jurist (wilayat al-faqih)."

.....

To the Christians

If you, Christians, cannot tolerate that Muslims share with you certain domains of government, Allah has also made it intolerable for Muslims to participate in an unjust regime, unjust for you and for us, in a regime which is not predicated upon the prescriptions (ahkam) of religion and upon the basis of the Law (the Shari'a) as laid down by Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets. If you search for justice, who is more just than Allah? It is He who sent down from the sky the message of Islam through his successive prophets in order that they judge the people and give everyone his rights. If you were deceived and misled into believing that we anticipate vengeance against you - your fears are unjustified. For those of you who are peaceful, continue to live in our midst without anybody even thinking to trouble you.

We don't wish you evil. We call upon you to embrace Islam so that you can be happy in this world and the next. If you refuse to adhere to Islam, maintain your ties with the Muslims and don't take part in any activity against them. Free yourselves from the consequences of hateful confessionalism. Banish from your hearts all fanaticism and parochialism. Open your hearts to our Call (da'wa) which we address to you. Open yourselves up to Islam where you'll find salvation and happiness upon earth and in the hereafter. We extend this invitation also to all the oppressed among the non-Muslims. As for those who belong to Islam only formally, we exhort them to adhere to Islam in religious practice and to renounce all fanaticisms which are rejected by our religion.

.....

he Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

mos6507 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

beat me to it!

Wink

mos6507 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Seahorse...

Muslims belong to a cult because they try and live life based on a mad man who claimed to hear voices in a cave 1400 years ago. The funny thing is most of their actions are based on Bukhari who wrote hearsay 200+ years after Mo's death...

The fact of the matter is, If Mohammad had done today what he had done 1400 years ago, he would either be in an insane asylum, or arrested for child rape.

That is what these nut jobs are trying to base a state on....

and I won't even get into the 12th Imam joke!

seahorse · Expert Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2196 Location: Arkansas

Personally,

Well, here's why history is so important. Right now, we accuse the Iranians of funding hezbollah and may fund more wars against Iran or Hezbollah to stop Iranian funding of terrorist. But that all begs the question of why religious zealots are running Iran in the first place. There are religious zealots in Iran bc we overthrew the elected Iranian president in the 50s and installed the Shah.

The US is also contemplating war with Iran to stop the Iranian nuclear program that was started by who? The US of course.

Iranian Nuclear program wiki

So, before we go starting more wars to stop things we don't like, maybe we can see based on our history there that our actions are causing more problems than solutions. So, before you start deciding to blow up Hezbollah, we have to understand how our own actions have caused and continue to exacerbate the situation there - i.e. "blowback."

Now, isn't it interesting that Iran, who we haven't had any contacts with since the 70s, and have keep anyone else from supporting, has more democracy than the places we have supported, like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan? How is it that when the US takes a hands off approach to a country like Iran, and in fact, tries to choke politically and financially, the seeds of democracy actually take root, whereas in the Countries we continue to have relations with, dictatorships flourish?

Maybe then, if the last 30 years teaches us anything, its this: if we want democracy to take root in the Middle East, we should get the Fark out of there.

Another example, Hamas. Here's a group the US has tried to isolate politically and economically, yet they get the popular vote of the Palestinian people, running out of gov't everyone that has US political support and financial ties.

Oh, but we can't abandon Israel can we, so, how are we really any different than the religious cultist nuts called Hezbollah or any of the other fundamentalist Islamic religious cultist you so despise?

Why are we in the ME, to support a Jewish state? To spread democracy? Or to take the oil?

Well, as shown earlier, its certainly not to spread democracy. So, its either to be religious cultist ourselves or to take the oil.
Michael Klare in his book "Blood and Oil" and resource wars explains American foreign policy since WWII quite well. They are must read books in my opinion. He believes its to take the oil, but, I wouldn't rule out we are supporters of religious nuts just like any of the Islamist you so detest.

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1062

Cid_Yama · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

Druze Surrender - hand over weapons

A ceasefire was established on Sunday between followers of the Druze leader Walid Jumblatt and opposition followers after clashes broke out on Jumblatt's stronghold of Mount Lebanon.

"A ceasefire was established," Druze opposition leader Talal Arslan said.

"I have been in contact with Walid Jumblatt and we agreed that his fighters will hand over their weapons to Lebanese Army," Arslan said.

Lebanese Army trucks were seen heading to the areas of the clashes.

An Army officer at the scene said, "We will start deploying in the area of clashes now."

Fierce clashes erupted between Jumblatt's followers and Hezbollah militants in the axes of Aitat, Choufayet, Kayfoun, 20 km, southeast of Beirut.

Artillery fire was used in the fighting and black smoke was seen billowing from nearby valleys.

Jumblatt, who is also the leader of the Progressive Socialist Party (PSP), called on his followers to restrain themselves.

Jumblatt asked Arslan, who is close to Hezbollah, to carry out the negotiations on behalf of the Druze community with the opposition to stop "a bloodbath."

Druze Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said the situation was "very, very dangerous and we have to stop this bloodbath before it gets out of hand".

Hezbollah Foiled US Coup Bid In Lebanon

Syrian official daily Al-Baath Sunday said Hezbollah had foiled a US-planned coup to seize control of Lebanon during the deadly gunbattles which rocked the country.

"The Americans launched a pre-emptive strike against opposition nationalist forces, starting with the (Hezbollah) resistance, and attempted a Washington- planned coup but were taken aback by the opposition, which restored order in Lebanon," the paper said.

The Lebanese opposition aimed to "remove foreign interference and stop the plots to transform Lebanon... into an Israeli protectorate and new focal point of U.S. links in the region," the ruling party's paper added.

Hezbollah force corners U.S. allies in Lebanon

By briefly taking over Beirut, Hezbollah has shown a readiness to use force against the governing coalition and could bring more to bear in an attempt to end Lebanon's power struggle on its terms.

But Hezbollah's takeover of Beirut showed there are few options for repelling the latest challenge to Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's government and the politicians who back it. Their armed followers were routed by Hezbollah in the capital.

Hezbollah's move in Beirut forced a partial retreat by the government on decisions targeting the group and which had triggered the escalation, including steps against a communications network vital to its military and security wings.

"We no longer have red lines," Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said on Thursday, calling the government decisions a declaration of war in a speech that appeared to give the green light for his fighters to move into the streets.

Hezbollah would use its weapons against anyone who tried to disarm it, said Nasrallah, who had previously always maintained that the arsenal was only for use against Israel.

The statement rewrote the rules in the power struggle between the Hezbollah-led opposition and the governing coalition.

Hezbollah's move stripped the government of control of the capital, including the airport which has been closed by opposition barricades. Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has not left his headquarters at the Serail palace since last week.

"The government is in the Serail, claiming that it rules and is legitimate, while Hezbollah is on the ground deepening its authority," Taqieddin said. A resolute Hezbollah may try to force it to yield through "another shock", he said.

If you notice, Hezbollah defeats the factions, and then the Lebanese Army comes in to collect their weapons, Hezbollah isn't turning over any weapons. What does that tell you about the shape of things in Lebanon? Hezbollah is in control.
_________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Taghayee · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

Taghayee · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

Taghayee · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

btu2012 · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

Guys,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all related Abrahamic religions (in Islamic parlance, they define "the people of the Book"). Calling any of them a "cult" is exaggerated in the extreme.

It's really sickening to see to what extent people still hold medieval conceptions about each other's religions even though their civilizations are intimately related and part of the same cultural stream.

Europe and the Middle East are cultural twins, and Judaism as well as Christianity are Middle Eastern religions, whether Westerners like that or not. The culture of the "West" is rooted in the Mediterranean basin, both north and south of the Mediterranean sea. That entire region forms a cultural and anthropological continuum, whose divisions are much more shallow than they appear.

Regarding fanaticism, there was and is plenty of it in both Judaism and Christianity, so Islam doesn't have a monopoly on that by any means. It would be better if all could first look at their own backyard before coming up with dehumanizing theories about their neighbors' beliefs.

Btu
_________________
only the paranoid survive

Cid_Yama · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon

Come on you guys, This is about as major as you are going to get short of tanks rolling in the Middle East, and you are arguing religion.

Hezbollah appears to have taken control of Lebanon following a failed power play.

Apparently Gaza currently has no electricity. Will post link when I find out more.

update: Appears unrelated - apparently power plant is shut down as no fuel was delivered and they ran out.
_________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

tagehey,

"Bukhari's material is but of very little importance when compared to other materials in Islam, including Quran."

To sunni muslims, Bukhari's book is ISLAM, and in day to day living Bukhari has MUCH more effect than Quran. Without Bukhari, sunni Islam wouldn't anything like what it is today. I have lived/studied sunni for 10 years.

the_sword · Tar Sands Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Posts: 55

Seahorse,

This fight will find you whether you run from the current battle or not.

All over the world Muslims are blowing themselves up in the name of their peaceful religion. It will not stop if we leave the middle east.