Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Just ignore the low-class sniping at Europe and the welfare state contained in the article. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 3862 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
BigTex wrote:
Heineken wrote:
BigTex wrote:
There are many fields in which you only have to work 20-30 years to draw a nice pension for life.
Military, police and fire come to mind.
Think about that: assume a life expectancy of 80 years. Out of that 80 years, only 20-30 would be spent working. The other 50-60 years would be spent living at someone else's expense. That's really something.
A lot of those jobs are often miserable and entail considerable personal risk, Tex.
I support the concept of public pensions for people doing society's dirty work.
When you think about it, the police are the only thing standing between us and barbarism.
I don't disagree with you.
It's just interesting that a person would be able to live 50-60 years without having to work and the rest of society would be okay with that.
Those professions have a good thing going. A VERY good thing, assuming you live to draw the pension.
The reward for doing societies 'dirty work' should be in the form of salary and injury coverage. That's it.
The idea that society should pay someone 60 to 100% of their salary for life is really nutty. I can understand a small pension on the order of 10 to 20% of the average of their last few years pay dished out after they turn 60 or so, but what's going on now for so many is really wasteful and extravagant. It simply can't continue. It's another example of how the party is coming to a close.
I have a 50 year old friend who's a retired cop. He collects $50,000 a year for life, with inflationary increases plus full medical coverage. He is flat broke all the time because for him saving money is meaningless. He blows his monthly check by the second or third week then waits for the mail. This will continue for decades and there are millions just like him. I can't help thinking his checks days are numbered, so to speak. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4159 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
threadbear wrote:
Kingcoal wrote:
The world that I've known in the private sector has no protections for job loss, no pensions, no elaborate benefit plans. As a result, I can't identify with people who think that they should keep getting paid after they quit working. It reminds me of Mr. Bill's signature:
"The State is a wonderful invention where everyone can live at someone else's expense."
The pension system was devised when life expectancy was between 65 and 68 years of age. People are now living, in poor health, until they are in their eighties, and it's not just a drain on the pension system. It's an all around psychological , physical and spiritual drain, for the entire society.
Logan's Run baby!!! _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
eastbay wrote:
...
I have a 50 year old friend who's a retired cop. He collects $50,000 a year for life, with inflationary increases plus full medical coverage. He is flat broke all the time because for him saving money is meaningless. He blows his monthly check by the second or third week then waits for the mail. This will continue for decades and there are millions just like him. I can't help thinking his checks days are numbered, so to speak.
I think sympathy for reckless behavior will become a commodity more rare than light sweet crude oil in the coming years.
or maybe it has already happened?
How many people feel sorry for all the clueless who went over their head buying homes they couldn't afford? or is that a rhetorical question?
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4240 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Don't we know how this story ends?
Inflation is under-reported. Pension plans slowly vanish as each dollar gets worth less and less while the Cost of Living Adjustments fails to keep up.
The smart guy with the 401K is able to beat inflation while the pensioners falls further and further behind. The dumb guy loses everything in his 401K and ends up about as worse off as the pensioner.
Good luck! _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4860 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
cube wrote:
How many people feel sorry for all the clueless who went over their head buying homes they couldn't afford? or is that a rhetorical question?
Nope. Its a very real question ---Congress is voting on it right now.
The house just voted through the Barney Frank bill (dem-Mass) which will spend billions in tax payer money to bail out all the clueless who went over their head buying homes they can't afford.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 5814 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Ludi wrote:
Not many police out here, and not many barbarians either....
Oh, I disagree most sharply with that one, Ludi.
The barbarians are many, but even more numerous are the potential barbarians.
When the police disappear, or the threat of the police, they all come crawling out of the woodwork. Legions of roach-barbarians.
Civilization is the thinnest of veneers. A single coat that can be washed rapidly away when the chemistry is right.
Come to think of it, there are plenty of barbarians wearing expensive suits. One of them sits in the Oval Office. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
The cops ran out of gas in central Florida during the 04 hurricanes. I saw one national guard soldier at a ruined gas station. We had no law enforcement. The natives remained quiet. The difference, that was a one time event that would be over as soon as we could make repairs and clean up the mess. This long emergency is a different matter. Most men will leave their homes looking for work. Some will leave to loot and will wind up on the county work gangs.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11367 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
Ludi wrote:
Not many police out here, and not many barbarians either....
Oh, I disagree most sharply with that one, Ludi.
Oh I know you do. But you don't live here, do you? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3896 Location: Graceland
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
Texas strikes me as a particularly rich potential source of barbarians, Ludi.
It should be a quite vibrant ecosystem of barbarians and barbarian predators, as it has been for a couple hundred years. _________________ Our window of opportunity is slowly closing...at the same time, it probably requires a spiral of adversity. In other words, things have to get worse before they can get better.
-M. King Hubbert, 1983
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 560 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
Texas strikes me as a particularly rich potential source of barbarians, Ludi. And yes, I have lived there.
Ditto my own state.
Heiny! We're both Virginians and I'm wondering how can you say such a destructive thing about our wonderful state?
Just because we have the confederates.
And the rednecks.
And the hillbillies.
And the military bases.
And the feds by the thousands.
And the lots of unsustainable cities.
...never mind... _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11367 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
I've never seen so much as a public argument during the ten years since I moved back here. They are the most polite barbarians in the world, I guess. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
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They are the most polite barbarians in the world, I guess.
