For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Partisan conservatives pooh-pooh peak oil (and human-caused climate change) because they think that to concede that these challenges are real and must be confronted is to acknowledge that greed is not always good, and that free market capitalism must be restrained, or at least tinkered with substantially. Peak oil and climate change are fronts in the culture wars, and to some conservatives, watching the price of oil rise as the Arctic ice melts, it might feel like being in Germany at the close of World War II, with the Russians advancing on one front while U.S.-led forces come from the other. The propositions that cheap oil is running out and the world is getting hotter -- as a result of our own activities -- threaten a whole way of life. The very idea that dirty Gaia-worshipping hippies might be right is absolute anathema. _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1972 Location: Waiuku, New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
essex wrote:
BTW one of your looney mates even had the temerity to post Michael Manns' notorious hockey stick graph. Junk science at its " best "
The hockey stick has been verified several times in the past couple of years. That climate change deniers still believe it's been thoroughly discredited shows the depth of their denial.
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1011 Location: was rwwff
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
TonyPrep wrote:
That climate change deniers still believe it's been thoroughly discredited shows the depth of their denial.
I don't see very many on here denying climate change. Sounds like your propping up a punching bag to avoid comment on the real challenges.... Some things that disturb me:
- The assumption that the 1950's climate is Earth's equilibrium climate.
It is not.
- The assumption that the continuation of life depends upon the continuation of the current abnormally cool climate phase.
It does not.
- The assumption that "if we would only listen" we could choose to do something that would halt or seriously reduce the changes in our climate.
Can not.
The earth is move TOWARDS its equilibrium point climate, we started the ball rolling down the hill; but it is long since past the point that we can stop its progress.
Time to worry more about how to survive during the transition and at the final equilibrium. If you need someone to blame for starting the transition, you most likely have been preselected for darwinian .... refinement.
And just to avoid the tangential responses... In my opinion,
Yes; climate change will cause horrific suffering amongst humans across the globe. Yes, human activities are the primary cause. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1972 Location: Waiuku, New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
I don't need anyone to blame, I'm just as much to blame as most others in developed countries. I was merely commenting on the incorrect perceived wisdom that Mann's hockey stick is wrong. It is still trotted out by climate change deniers, and not just on this forum.
I don't know how you can be so certain of all of your statements but at least I agree with your last point.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 2954 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
Hey AgentR. Which equilibrium do you see us returning to? Glacial? Remember that sea level was higher during the Eemian. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
I'm just gonna find a cash machine.
The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has reached a record high, according to new figures that renew fears that climate change could begin to slide out of control.
Scientists at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii say that CO2 levels in the atmosphere now stand at 387 parts per million (ppm), up almost 40% since the industrial revolution and the highest for at least the last 650,000 years.
The figures, published by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) on its website, also confirm that carbon dioxide, the chief greenhouse gas, is accumulating in the atmosphere faster than expected. The annual mean growth rate for 2007 was 2.14ppm – the fourth year in the past six to see an annual rise greater than 2ppm. From 1970 to 2000, the concentration rose by about 1.5ppm each year, but since 2000 the annual rise has leapt to an average 2.1ppm.
No one gives a damm _________________ Stocking up on popcorn
Joined: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 162 Location: missouri
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
Quote:
If I might suggest, Earth Abides, by George Stewart. The best novel ever written, trust me.
I'm on it. I'm having the strangest feeling though. I'm off work today, and the family is at work or school, so I'm alone and the weather is whacky (again), so no one is out walking or driving much on our street so everything is really quiet. And in the context of that book, well, spooky.
Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 472 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:
If Stephen Hawking is concerned, then I think I will be too. Besides, it doesn't have to be as bad as Venus for all life on Earth to end. If we start having 130 degree F summers around here, I think that will do it for me.
Oh... and essex, you're an idiot.
Hawking is not qualified to deal with climate issues.
Lovelock is not qualified to deal with black hole thermodynamics and cosmology.
If qualification is the standard by which I will listen to another's viewpoint, then I should simply ignore everything that you have to say.
Joined: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 161 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
TonyPrep wrote:
I don't need anyone to blame, I'm just as much to blame as most others in developed countries. I was merely commenting on the incorrect perceived wisdom that Mann's hockey stick is wrong. It is still trotted out by climate change deniers, and not just on this forum.
I don't know how you can be so certain of all of your statements but at least I agree with your last point.
Really ? Since the IPCC has now abandoned Mann's graph are they now " deniers" ?
LOL
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 991 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
essex wrote:
TonyPrep wrote:
I don't need anyone to blame, I'm just as much to blame as most others in developed countries. I was merely commenting on the incorrect perceived wisdom that Mann's hockey stick is wrong. It is still trotted out by climate change deniers, and not just on this forum.
I don't know how you can be so certain of all of your statements but at least I agree with your last point.
Really ? Since the IPCC has now abandoned Mann's graph are they now " deniers" ?
LOL
Since when did they abandon it? Just another myth circulating around the internet. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Runaway Global Warming - Scarier than you think
Interesting - I think I've read several other news stories, books and papers that concluded a few years between 2000 and today have been the warmest on record. I have to call foul on this - global mean temps have risen since 1998, and the running 5 year average is trending upwards. I'd be very interested to read the source of your global cooling since 1998 assertion. I haven't been able to find any research grade information that supports that claim.
essex wrote:
This piece was published 4 years ago. Since then there has been more exacting scientific research and none of it points to imminent disaster. The IPCC has admitted that the climate has not warmed since the 1998 El Nino and posits that there will be no more warming now for up to 10 years. None of their climate models predicted the gradual decline in temperatures since 1998, nor the very sharp drop 07/08. So 20 years of no real warming to get hysterical about.
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