Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4483 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
FoxV wrote:
eastbay wrote:
I thought it cost $100,000. Why are we even bothering to discuss a toy for the rich anyhow? I mean, even Graeme on a very optimistic day won't touch this silly nonsense.
Because the new technology always starts with the rich.
Some good examples:
First Plasma TVs - $25000 for a 40"
First PCs - $10,000 for a glorified calculator
First TVs - One or two per neighborhood if any at all
First Cars - only a toy for the rich
In the end, let the Rich pay for the RND of their new toys. Me, I'll wait till its 1/20th the price they pay for it.
yesplease and FoxV, good point.... but we now have the means to mass produce an electric car (less power and range, but still fine for most urban uses) but the Big Companies refuse to do so. If they did make one in the 10,000 to 15,000 price range then it would be worth talking about. But this 100 grand Tesla is really annoying. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
yesplease wrote:
...With prices where they are now, a home conversion is definitely financially worthwhile down to the low three dollar per gallon range,....
I'd love to see pictures of your EV home converted car.
D00d, trolling is one thing, but ease up on the creepy requests. First yer asking for piks of a car, then before yer victim knows it, it's ASL and whatnot. Until now I've wondered why everyone's been in such an uproar about predators online. _________________
Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 399 Location: Northern California, USA
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
So the tesla costs $90,000. If you drive it for 100,000 miles and an ICE two seater will cost you $15,000.
Assuming the electricity cost to charge it is negligeble and the two seater gets 35mpg. You'll break even on gas is at $26.25/gallon. If the ICE got 10mpg break even would be $8.75/gallon.
At $50,000 for the 35mpg ICE the breakeven would be $8.75/Gallon and the breakeven for the 10mpg ICE would be $5.00/gallon.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
The fifteen grand new car won't go 0-60 in four seconds, so if you're comparing stuff you might as well use similar vehicles IMO. Along the same lines, a free beater is certainly cheaper than a $15,000 car, but comparing them in terms of cost isn't exactly kosher since the beater could have the floor rusted out and maybe do 60mph on a good day. _________________
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
GM made an electric vehicle (see: "who killed the electric car?) and it was quite nice they said. But they killed it for whatever reason.
Why don't they start to produce the same thing right now?
At least they could compete with something.
I think many people would buy an electric car if they could buy a cheap used one, but you have to buy them new.
It should come with a solar panel , at least here in the Sunshine State OZ.
Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 70 Location: Ashland,OR
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
abelardlindsay wrote:
So the tesla costs $90,000. If you drive it for 100,000 miles and an ICE two seater will cost you $15,000.
Assuming the electricity cost to charge it is negligeble and the two seater gets 35mpg. You'll break even on gas is at $26.25/gallon. If the ICE got 10mpg break even would be $8.75/gallon.
At $50,000 for the 35mpg ICE the breakeven would be $8.75/Gallon and the breakeven for the 10mpg ICE would be $5.00/gallon.
Not a terrable way to look at it, but the sticker shock at the dealer is the real clintcher. Gas gets to $10 a gallon, people will scream bloody murder for any alternitive.
You have to amortize the cost of the batts, a li-ion with outstanding battery management MIGHT last the lifetime of the vehicle. Or burst into flames 100 cycles into the pack. In lab conditions some companies get 3000+cycles out of a pack. The BMS (bat management sys) is a pain in the ass. There is no real standard. EE's(electronic enginears) are notoriously belt and suspender types, ya end up with a individual charger for every cell in a pack. A nightmare. Esp if you are running parrallell strings like tesla, there are realy alot of cells in there!
There are some realy amusing pics on the web of dell computers bursting into flames, the result of not managing individual cells on an early li-ion.
Motors rock, batts suck. Still true, mankind needs a major tecnological breakthough in energy storage, or we start turning the long pig on the spit...
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
I'm *technically* NOT anti-EV contrary to the infamous reputation I might have on this forum.
I'd be more than happy to buy an EV car if a major company (Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc...) builds an EV car with these specs:
1) $20,000
2) 300 mile range
3) hold 5 people total
4) freeway capable
Everybody do me a favor; give me a call whenever you see this.
my cell phone number is 1-800-PEA-KOIL
I'll just sit here and wait patiently. Let's hope I don't have to wait too long.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3804 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
The only way to get 300 mile range is through supercapacitors or the silicon nanowire lithium which is all still science fiction right now. It's a longshot whether that stuff will come to market before the po crash takes down advanced R&D with it. Even if it does, it will be too expensive to matter.
People want a drop-in replacement for gas cars. They aren't going to get it. They are going to have to adapt the way they drive to suit electric vehicles, or be willing to pay for gas in a plugin hybrid if they want extended range.
Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 399 Location: Northern California, USA
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
Vegas wrote:
abelardlindsay wrote:
So the tesla costs $90,000. If you drive it for 100,000 miles and an ICE two seater will cost you $15,000.
Assuming the electricity cost to charge it is negligeble and the two seater gets 35mpg. You'll break even on gas is at $26.25/gallon. If the ICE got 10mpg break even would be $8.75/gallon.
At $50,000 for the 35mpg ICE the breakeven would be $8.75/Gallon and the breakeven for the 10mpg ICE would be $5.00/gallon.
Not a terrable way to look at it, but the sticker shock at the dealer is the real clintcher. Gas gets to $10 a gallon, people will scream bloody murder for any alternitive.
You also have to assume that someone who would have enough money lying around to blow on a tesla wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than a $50,000 car anyway .
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
abelardlindsay wrote:
...
You also have to assume that someone who would have enough money lying around to blow on a tesla wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than a $50,000 car anyway .
I think you're onto something here.
Do you know what PO is going to feel like?
Imagine waking up the next day and realizing that your paycheck just dropped by 5%. And the next year you get another 5% cut again.
and again and again........
That's what PO is going to feel like.
How realistic is it to assume that Joe Sixpack is going to go out there and buy a $50,000 car?
The only people who will buy such a car are the ones who used to be able to afford a $100,000 car.
WhiteStar is the codename of a planned electric car from Tesla Motors. It is expected to be the second vehicle produced by the company, after its Tesla Roadster electric sportscar. Release is anticipated for the 2010 model year[1].
.....
Initial pricing is estimated at $50,000 for the standard model or $65,000 for a premium model with greater performance and range.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3804 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
There's a 3rd way. improved aerodynamics
Even with aerodynamics you can't get 300 miles without a prohibitively expensive battery pack. Also, aerodynamics doesn't help range at low speeds. It just improves EV range on highway cruising.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3804 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car
cube wrote:
Imagine waking up the next day and realizing that your paycheck just dropped by 5%. And the next year you get another 5% cut again.
I think the smart people are going to become efficiency experts really fast and they will continue to optimize their lifestyle to tread water on their finances. I think it's doable--for a while. But the clock is ticking.
WhiteStar is the codename of a planned electric car from Tesla Motors. It is expected to be the second vehicle produced by the company, after its Tesla Roadster electric sportscar. Release is anticipated for the 2010 model year[1].
.....
Initial pricing is estimated at $50,000 for the standard model or $65,000 for a premium model with greater performance and range.
Sounds like smoke to me. OK, you gonna make a high end car, or a mid-priced sedan-Hell we'll make BOTH.
Please.
What is going on is a widespread wanking by software development jerk-offs thinking that vehicles are just like writing code for doomIII.
You guys like predictions: no whitestar will ever roll.
They want to build a 'real' factory, They got no idea what be getting into, $100mil hard money for tooling and factory...
Operating capitol that is staggering...
Heres the bike that every greenie tosser has been blathering about for TEN years. These guys realy stepped on their collective dicks.
Hey, we're going to save the world! Oh, maby not.
What a waste. Would have been better off strapping a 6horse briggs&stratton to a BMX bike.
How do you build something so shitty, that every greenie is wetting himself waiting for it, and then sell one in ten of your production.
525lbs, with a 120lb battery, crap, an eight year old kid could tell you thats not going to work.
This just shows that EV's ain't stupid, it's people who are stupid.
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