How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2552 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
Quote:
Two decades from now Americans could get as much electricity from windmills as from nuclear power plants, according to a government report that lays out a possible plan for wind energy growth.
The report, a collaboration between the Energy Department research labs and industry, concludes wind energy could generate 20 percent of the nation's electricity by 2030, about the same share now produced by nuclear reactors.
Such growth would pose a number of major challenges, but is achievable without the need of major new technological breakthroughs, said the report released Monday.
yahoo _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4346 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
It doesn't surprise me at all.
Wind is cost competitive with natural gas right now.
That's before factoring in the coming increase in natural gas prices as America starts paying world prices for its LNG.
I have a couple friends who have a wind energy consulting firm that works to help towns develop their wind resources...and they're flooded with work and are forced to turn down contracts left and right.
Wind is definitely going to be a major factor in any future energy grid, especially for a country like the United States with so much wind potential.
There are literally millions upon millions of acres of land in Tornado Alley that could be tapped. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
While we may see a cap WRT using wind to provide electricity for the grid, other applications, such as manufacturing Ammonia for fertilizer, are definitely viable, and may even be economic depending on how we account for the externalities of Carbon emissions. IIRC, we only need ~10+% of the world's current electricity generation to provide all the fertilizer we need for food production. In places like the US, we would only need a couple percent of electricity generation to supply enough fertilizer to feed the nation. _________________
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2552 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
Phosphate latest craze for investors
Quote:
He didn't cite examples, but we can. Morocco and Western Sahara have enough known phosphate to meet the world's demand at present levels for 300 years. And big money is going into new production, including a new mine in Morocco (the so-called Saudi Arabia of phosphate). An Indian company is to spend $US1.5 billion ($1.6 billion) to build a fertiliser plant in Mozambique, a country with large known resources of phosphate. And another Indian company has teamed up with Singapore money to develop new mines.
theaustralian _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
mos6507 wrote:
What do we do about phosphorous?
Same thing we've always done more or less. Toss in electrified rail, and we should be o.k.
cube wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
In places like the US, we would only need a couple percent of electricity generation to supply enough fertilizer to feed the nation.
What do we do about phosphorous?
totally agree mos6507.
The claim that wind power can solve fertilizer woes == fail
yesplease you knew the answer already.
Read Graeme's post below. Unless of course you already "knew" about it.
Which is besides the point, since electrification in mining equipment is definitely present, if not pervasive yet. Speaking of electrified phosphate mining... Kublikhan had some stuff posted too IIRC. And, as always, "CUBE there is a website called www.google.com", sheesh... _________________
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
yesplease - stop trolling
That's not what you said before, you're back peddling.
You are just trying to rope someone into a pointless wild goose chase.
saying electricity can be used to mine for phosphates is a totally different statement then what you originally said: electricity can supply all fertilizer needs
or perhaps did you forget that? you can thank me for "refreshing" your memory.
Last edited by cube on Tue May 13, 2008 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
They can't look any worse than a huge nuclear reactor or 2 sitting in your backyard! Plus, what WERE they going to do with all the land around old, nonproductive oil wells?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
cube wrote:
saying electricity can be used to mine for phosphates is a totally different statement then what you originally said: electricity can supply all fertilizer needs
or perhaps did you forget that? you can thank me for "refreshing" your memory.
First off, I never meant to say that electricity could provide for all fertilizer production, since my initial statement was about Ammonia production, although in retrospect it probably could be. Nitrogen can be fixed thanks to electricity and Phosphorus /Potassium mined and processed with it where it already isn't. Given how little of the world's electricity production, and how much less of the US' electricity production would be needed to do this I don't see why we wouldn't choose to do so as the costs of conventional feedstocks and processes increase.
But, anyway, going back on topic, my post was about all fertilizer production as it related to Ammonia production, but I don't see why all fertilizer production couldn't be electrified. In any event, unless you provide something of significance to this discussion, I don't see why you're trolling. Perhaps you're simply getting paid to do it, so in that case I really can't do much to dissuade you from your childish posts except point out where the information you present is incorrect while you make a fool out of yourself. _________________
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2636 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
mommy22 wrote:
They can't look any worse than a huge nuclear reactor or 2 sitting in your backyard! Plus, what WERE they going to do with all the land around old, nonproductive oil wells?
A reactor doesn't have big swinging blades attracting your attention. The human eye is sucked to anything in motion. A reactor just sits there and is hence easy to ignore. It's just a big house.
And the output of one or two reactors is not the same as the output of one or two windmills. Rather 1500 or 3000 windmills...
I'd much rather live close to a reactor than in the middle of 1500 giant spinning windmills... _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2636 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Use of wind energy expected to grow dramatically
Phospourus extraction peaked 20 years ago. Didn't result in much, apparently. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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