Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6481 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Ludi wrote:
I've never seen so much as a public argument during the ten years since I moved back here. They are the most polite barbarians in the world, I guess.
Well, the test of this is yet to come. People's barbarian potential has barely been tapped.
That's my whole point. After collapse, loss of income and food and homes, etc., the veneer peels away and we see people as they really are without all the fine easy things cheap energy has provided. That fat life-surplus Tex was talking about.
Once they realize that soldiers and police won't be trucking in food and safety, that's when the fists and bullets and clubs start flying. It will be a death struggle.
Starvation kinda does that to you. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Ludi wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Starvation kinda does that to you.
Yep, nothing like starvation to give you plenty of energy to rape and pillage.
*steps in like a referee*
Ludi scores 1 point
however......
I don't think I'll ever see Americans or anybody in the 1st world literally starving within my lifetime. There's so much "fat" that can be cut from the system: beer, cigarettes, porn, NASCAR, ETC... before we get down to basic foods like beans and rice.
But violence is a definite potential. All it takes is:
1) a hugely upset population
2) a manipulative politician with no scruples who knows how to capitalize on the situation
We're not that far away from it IMHO.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
I just want to see what massive unemployment will do for the system.
Pension?......that's my chickens out back. I'm gonna sell eggs when I'm 80 for 10 dollars a dozen! _________________ President Bush: “There’s no question about it. Wall Street got drunk—that’s one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras. It got drunk, and now it’s got a hangover."
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Oh, there will be beer... and porn too for that matter! ; - )) _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
We have come to depend on the various government and
corporate and union incomes for retirement and sustainable
life. I have a relative who has been a staunch union tradesman
all his life and who has a fat retirement pension. He is dismayed
because it is largely invested by his union in Chindia and other
emerging markets and so after being a Made in America fanatic
all his life, he is pulling for the emerging markets to keep working
hard while he retires.
If the good bankers and managers who run these funds are
out gunned by the thieves, as we witnessed with the recent
subprime and credit rating and strategy debacle in New York,
then much of this stuff is in the wind.
We largely abandoned community and barn raising and neighbors
pitching in to SAVE each other for things like corporate managed
charity funds and the like. The silver lining is that in America we
have people who may be a generation of experience past
the grass roots community, but they have the inherent goodness
in quantum, to get back to it if the government and corporate
"cheese makers" lose a wheel and shoot off into the weeds.
I will bet on the basic decency of much of everyday Americans
to make a radical adjustment much better than a swollen, rotten,
and bloated New York and Washington based power elite can
envision. But Kunstler's sage words still reign supreme here:
"We will do what we have done until we can't, and then we won't."
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6481 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
cube wrote:
Ludi wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Starvation kinda does that to you.
Yep, nothing like starvation to give you plenty of energy to rape and pillage.
*steps in like a referee*
Ludi scores 1 point
however......
I don't think I'll ever see Americans or anybody in the 1st world literally starving within my lifetime. There's so much "fat" that can be cut from the system: beer, cigarettes, porn, NASCAR, ETC... before we get down to basic foods like beans and rice.
Actually, starvation can be amazingly motivating, until you pass a certain stage.
And . . . who's "we"? Many people are already down to beans and rice. Homeless people are being found dead, of malnutrition, exposure, and other bad things. Elderly people are having to decide between drug therapy and food. Sick people are dying because they don't have health insurance or can't get the drugs or treatments they need. You don't know much about what's really going on this country. You suffer from the myth that "it can't happen here; after all, this is America." _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1172 Location: Central NC
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
cube wrote:
Ludi wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Starvation kinda does that to you.
Yep, nothing like starvation to give you plenty of energy to rape and pillage.
*steps in like a referee*
Ludi scores 1 point
however......
I don't think I'll ever see Americans or anybody in the 1st world literally starving within my lifetime. There's so much "fat" that can be cut from the system: beer, cigarettes, porn, NASCAR, ETC... before we get down to basic foods like beans and rice.
Actually, starvation can be amazingly motivating, until you pass a certain stage.
And . . . who's "we"? Many people are already down to beans and rice. Homless people, elderly people, and sick people are being found dead, of malnutrition, exposure, and other bad things. Sick people are dying because they don't have health insurance or can't get the drugs or treatments they need. You don't know much about what's really going on this country. You suffer from the myth that "it can't happen here; after all, this is America."
It isn't honest to god actual starvation that gets people motivated, its missing that 2nd or 3rd meal in a row.
Kind of like marketing; its the sizzle not the steak.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6481 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Starvation goes through well-defined phases, I believe.
One of the middle phases is that you try to eat anything. Dirt. Grass. Earthworms. Your neighbor's brain. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
And . . . who's "we"? Many people are already down to beans and rice. Homeless people are being found dead, of malnutrition, exposure, and other bad things. Elderly people are having to decide between drug therapy and food. Sick people are dying because they don't have health insurance or can't get the drugs or treatments they need.
You're talking about the one half of one percent. While this is unfortunate it is a small % and certainly not the norm. There's always that small % that are on hard times no matter what's happening with the economy. Your assertion that somehow the USA or the 1st world is going through some type of crisis right now is point blank false.
3rd world yes : 1st world no.
Heineken wrote:
You don't know much about what's really going on this country. You suffer from the myth that "it can't happen here; after all, this is America."
Yes it will happen here, but by the time it does happen I'll die of old age before then.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6481 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Dream on, Cube. The American underclass is big and growing fast. You're in denial. (Not an altogether bad strategy, actually.) _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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They are the most polite barbarians in the world, I guess.
